Hope you don't mind it's length and don't find it annoying .. bear with me please.
Also if you are interested in finding a certain part or a certain class (you fav one) here is a short list of contents.
1-Regarding the Barbarian:-
-Weapons
-Skills
- Overall Observations on current skills
- Specific observations
- New skill Suggestions
-Weapons
-Skills
- Overall Observations on current skills
- Specific observations
- New skill Suggestions
-Weapons
-Skills
- Overall Observations on current skills
- Specific observations
- New skill Suggestions
-Weapons
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1-Regarding the Barbarian:-
Weapons - Possible new Barbarian weapon types:
-Metal Spiked Club ------------------- (small ones that can be dual wielded are 1h/large ones are 2h)
-Heavy Samurai Blades (2h)------ (Swift, large and sharp blades made in Asian themed island Xiansai)
-Heavy Broad Swords (2h) -------- (Heavy Wide Blades that have a slight chance of blocking)
-Spiked Chain Ball (2h) ------------- (a single large metal ball attached to a long chain - has moderate range)
-Spiked Ball Hammer (2h) --------- (a long metal shaft with a large spiked ball at the end- could be a weapon type with more focus on critical-hit modifiers)
Skills:
Overall Observations on current skills:
-Some Barbarian skills feel a lacking in terms of benefits they give, and few others don't have a very clear function (more in detail in the next section)
Specific observations:
1-Stubborn (the Passive skill that reduces slowing effects) needs to have something more to it, currently there isn't enough at all to encourage people to invest in it just to counter the little possibility of being affected by some slowing effect at some point in the game, (i.e ... it could also be combined with Sprint (the Active skill that increases movement speed) and made into a passive (or active if needed) that generally increases the speed of movement and reduces slowing effects at the same time) ... in short most skills like this work way better if they have dual functions, a typical active-on-demand buff (increases movement speed) and a defensive buff for that rare-to-happen-moment (Reduce slowing effects).
2-The combination of Berserker State and Onslaught is quite awkward IMO (as far as i understand you need to be in Berserker state to be able to use the active skill Onslaught .. yet you don't have control on Berserker state since it is a passive), so unless Berserker State has a very decent chance of occurring and also must have a very clear visual and audio effects (to tell players they can use Onslaught now .. other wise they won't notice in the heat of combat and Onslaught will be just there on the skills tab collecting dust) ..... Another way to do it is to combine them into one passive or one active skill, this way IMO they will probably work better, specially knowing that Wrath of the Berserker (Active skill that increases numerous Barbarian combat stats) feels a lot like Onslaught and is also an active skill .. maybe Onslaught can be removed and Berserker state can be a passive that has a chance (between 15 and 40%) of activation and Wrath of Berserker stays an active skill the player can use at any time that gives the Barb an Overall combat boost .. in short i feel the trio (Wrath of Berserker) / (Onslaught) / (Berserker State) IMO need some revamping, there could be a lot more to them than they are now.
3-Weapon Throw is quite strange, Won't the Barb be able to use any sort of Bows or Throwing-weapons in order to need a skill like this !!? (and if he can use a bow will he be able to throw the bow itself for example if he uses this skill while carrying one), and will the thrown weapon be lost forever ? (if that's true then nobody will ever use this skill), or will it only be usable with throwing weapons ?, or will the Barb be able to throw any weapon endlessly ? (which in turn will make throwing-weapons and bows not needed for most if not all Barb builds), i can't quite grasp how this one works or what's the concept behind it, personally i hope it gets changed or updated into something more clear and understandable.
4-The Trio (Scavenge / Invigorated / Recovery) feel they need a little bit more to them (Later will mention the similar Trio of passives the Wizard has in Conjuring tree) ... i.e each one needs adding more attributes or buffs at higher levels so that not all Barb build end up having to invest in all three skills in order to gain a meaningful benefit .. in other words .. now its more of (take all three or leave all three).
-Scavenge --- (could increase Globes drop rate and also drop rate for potions)
-Invigorated --- (could increase STR upon picking up a globe and also could slightly increase the max HP for the Barb, or DEF or AGL).
-Recovery --- (could increase the healing from Globes and also increase the Barb Regen for a short while after picking a globe).
Cause the way they are now there isn't much choice involved with them, people will always pick all three ... and removing their dependency makes will help add more variety to builds IMO cause right now it feels like i said before (take all three or leave all three) which is against build variety.
5-Revenge (Active skill that is an AoE with limited use that also heals the Barbarian) doesn't feel like it serves a specific role or a new function, the Barb already has enough Battle cries that cover most meaningful functions, i hope also this one gets an update of change of function, also Bloodthirst (Active skill that heals the Barbarian some of the damage he deals) can be combined in some way with Revenge to create something more interesting (will suggest an alternative in the next section)
Some Skill Suggestions:(focused on opening up more build options like Shield focused Barb and Ranged Barb)
-Shield Bash - Active - 5 Ranks
(Smacks an enemy with equipped shield) - 2 Fury orb - has short cool down (2-4sec)
***With Multi-Rune ------------- Swipe attack multiple enemies infront of the Barb.
***With Power Rune ----------- Stomp one enemy stunning it and knocking it back.
***With Efficiency Rune ----- down to 1 Fury Orb per use, less cool down and generates more Fury per hit.
-Savage Throw - Active - 5 Ranks
(For throwing weapons - Barbarian puts all his/her power in throwing weapons at his/her foes doing heavy damage to them) - 1 Fury orb per throw (assuming throwing weapons don't have limited supply) - has short cool down (2-3 sec)
***With Multi-Rune ------------- Throw 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 weapons (depending on rune rank) in very quick succession per one throw (Dual wielding doubles numbers)
***With Power Rune ----------- Thrown Weapon does more damage, has a hi chance of doing Critical Damage and knocking back target.
***With Efficiency Rune ----- Less Cool Down, generates more Fury per hit.
-Mindless Bloodlust - Active - 5 Ranks (replaces Revenge and Bloodthrist)
Barbarian enters a trance in which the damage he deals heals himself for 10-20-30-40-50% (depending on skill rank) of the damage dealt with every successful attack, but he is also susceptible by 30% to receiving double the damage from enemy attacks during the buff active time.
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2-Regarding the Wizard:-
Weapons - Possible new Wizard weapon types:
-Metal Magic Staff (2h) -------- (A staff type with v.good melee Dmg for melee wizards / less focus on magic affixes)
-Spectral Staff (2h) ----------------- (A staff type with low physical Dmg / heavy focus on magical affixes and effects and Will Power increasing affixes)
-Throwing Charms ---------------- (Asian themed throwable magic weapon that debuffs enemies or comes charged with elements - can be thrown at enemies or on the ground for AoE effects - found in Xiansai)
Skills:
Overall Observations on current skills:
-The Wizard does need more passives - actives to passives ratio is a little off balance (its almost 70% active skills and only 20% passives, few more passives will balance things nicely), i know many passives were removed from the previous build since their function could be done using Skill runes or probably becasue they encouraged Heavy specialization in one tree only, but still there is a great lack of passives for wizards nonetheless.
-Some skills could use a little bit more diversity either visually or function wise, and some are lacking in benefits to warrant an investment in them (more detailed in the next section)
Specific observations:
1-Ray of Frost looks like a Disintegrate with different color, and i do know they function differently but still it could use some differernt visual representation to keep wizard skills looking as visually varied as possible (i.e .... a Cold Breath like animation or a different looking beam of frost that looks completely differernt from Disintegrate ... not just color variation)
2-The Dependency between Energy Shield and Arcane weaknesses is quite limiting and strange .. some Wiz builds need Arcane weakness without needing Energy Shield so there is no reason to link the two together and force people to investing Energy shield when they don't want to (unlike in the case of Stone Skin and Magic weapon .. their link makes sense since both serve melee wizards).. maybe Arcane Orb or Disintegrate would be a better replacement for Energy Shield as a perquisite to Arcane Weaknesses and it would make a lot more sense if someone wants hi-powered Arcane magic that they naturally invest in arcane skills first.
3-The Trio (Stability Control / Intensify / Mighty Impact) feel they need a little bit more to them cause right now they are a case of (take all three or leave all three) which is against build variety and variety in general(just like the similar Barbarian Trio of passives in Juggernaut Tree) ... i.e each one needs adding more attributes or buffs at higher levels so that not all Wiz build end up having to invest in all three skills in order to gain a meaningful benefit.
-Stability ------------ (Adds MP bonus and also a little HP bonus gain from Health Globes)
-Intensify ------------ (Increases critical hit chance and also increases effect of Will Power on Magic damage)
-Mighty Impact ---- (Increase critical hit damage and also directly increases damage for all magic skills)
Cause the way they are now there isn't much choice involved with them, people will always pick all three or leave all three in most cases ... also removing their dependency will help add more variety to builds IMO.
4-I feel that Explosive Charge not only seems works too similarly to skull of flames from the WD arsenal (a lobbing-grenade-type-attack) but also feels underpowered compared to the other Wizard skills, i don't see any reason that encourages players to use it and leave the other Arcane and Storm Skills and their empowering passives, i hope it gets replaced with a better skill or gets upgraded into something more distinctive and interesting specially if it was meant for melee wiz builds (maybe skill runes does make it work better)
5-Magic Missile seems to be the underdog compared to Arcane Orb, most players who played the Wiz opted to use it and ignored M.Missile altogether cause A.Orb is far more effective against mobs of enemies .. and they used Electrocute to zap fast enemies that can dodge the relatively slow A.orb, conclusion .. M.missile needs something special about it that gives people an incentive to use it (again maybe Skill runes will offer that, but will have to wait and see)
6-Expanded mind also need something more about it, it feels greatly lacking a strong reason for people to actually invest in it (i.e .. Besides increasing MP points it could also slightly increase casting rate or reduce consumption a little bit at higher levels).
Some Skill Suggestions:(with special focus on passives that the Wizard is currently lacking)
-Telekinesis - Active - 5 Ranks - Costs 4 MP per sec - rank 1/5
(A long thin Arc of lightening or Arcane energy extends from the Wizards fingers and hits one enemy .. upon that the victim is suspended 1 meter high from the ground and can't move or attack for 6-8 seconds (channeling ability), and the wizard also gains the ability to toss the enemy in any direction they please or keep that enemy hanging in mid air while other players attack it with melee or ranged attacks).
***With Power Rune -------------- Do damage over time to affected enemy, and tossing them does more damage.
***With Multi Rune ---------------- could make you hang up to 5 enemies in mid-air.
***With Efficiency Rune --------- could cost less (down to 1MP per use not sec) and last a while longer
It provides a new way to affect enemies and a new gameplay movements (like disintegrate), and is best used with Mirror Images or Hydra if there is no other party members around.
Passives:(much needed for the Wiz)
-Power Shift - Passive - 5 Ranks
(Adds +15% to physical damage and 5% to physical defense of the wizard for every 10 points in Willpower)
Great passive for melee focused wizards or those who want to make a warlock.
-Unleashed Potential - Passive - 5 Ranks
(Stun, Freezing and silence durations increased by 15-20-25-30-40% depending on skill rank)
-Reckless Arrogance - Passive - 5 Ranks
(spells have a 25% chance of doing 150-200-250-300-400% bonus damage but also have 25% chance to damage the caster by 10% of their damage)
-Magical Resistance - Passive - 5 Ranks
(increases resistance against all magical damage by 5-10-15-20-25%)
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3-Regarding the Witch Doctor:-
Weapons - Possible new Witch Doctor weapon types:
-Short Blow Dart (1h) ------------------------ (Fast rate short ranged dart weapon, focus on Poison related affixes)
-Long Bamboo Blow Dart (2h) ----------- (Slow rate long ranged Asian themed dart weapon, focus on Poison related affixes - found in Xiansai)
-Throwing Cleaver (1h) ---------------------- (Slow throwable weapon, but very damaging)
-Ceremonial feathered Spear (2h) ----- (Decorated spear weapons with focus on magical affixes)
-Ceremonial Daggers (1h) ------------------ (Daggers with focus on magical - fire and spirit - affixes)
Skills:
Overall Observations on current skills:
-Some skills have no use in PvP (more in detail in the next section).
-Lack of passives for fire and poison skills.
-Some slight overlapping of skills.
Specific observations:
1-Grasp of the dead could have a more interesting use if it not only damages the enemy but also slows them down and stuns them (due to being graped), all in all i just hope it offers some interesting uses and doesn't get overshadowed by Wall of Zombies (same case with M.missile and A.Orb of the Wiz) which could end being a more effective version of it that stops the enemies in their tracks and damages them at the same time (still runes could offer a solution but since they are usable on both skills W.of Zombies could still be superior and does the job better), other than that all the skills in Zombie skill tree are very interesting and seem very useful they don't really need any criticisms or changes IMO.
2-Haunt - could use a little bit more of a twist besides doing damage over time, as in lowering the damage of the hosts it occupies, or silencing them or both (still will wait to see what skill runes can add here)
3-Soul Harvest - Could be used in conjunction with Haunt in an interesting way, you send out multiple spirits (one by one) to occupy a number of hosts (damaging them slowly, lowering their damage and silencing them) using Haunt ... and upon activating Soul Harvest (all the spirits shed the bodies of their hosts violently and return for the Witch Doctor replenishing his mana depending by a percentage that depends on skill rank and on how much time they spent in the hosts bodies) .. just a suggestion i found interesting that adds a little bit more depth to skill use IMO .. and leaves pure damage dealing to Spirit Barrage.
4-Horrify and Mass Confusion - both are very nice skills for Single player, but fact is it is hard to grasp what they will do or how they will work in PvP (maybe it is a little early to talk about this but it is a valid concern), that's why i think it is better to give each more effects than just what they do in order to still be usable in PvP.
-Horrify ---------------------- (Besides its main effect, it could also lower targets magic resistance)
-Mass Confusion -------- (Besides its main effect, it could also lower enemies physical defense)
Maybe skill runes could play a role here still they should be useful in PvP even without runes ... fact is... giving multiple functions to skills is favorable.
5-Death Pact and Spirit Walk could be combined and offer more depth, by making it an active skill/buff (the player activates it when he feels he is cornered and upon reaching 10% of HP -while the buff is still active- it automatically triggers invisibility/phasing for a limited time to escape dire situations (of course cool down is a must)) .. this way it is more under the player control and feels more interesting IMO.
6-Hex would be a lot more interesting if it is an actual summon that stays for a while and actually have HP bar and AI not just pseudo-summon who pops up do a task and vanish.
-(Plague of Toads / Corpse Spiders / Acid Cloud) .... feel a bit similar to each other so players will just pick up the most effective poison skill and simply ignore the rest, maybe they can be reduced to two skill and a couple of poison based passives to make things more interesting or as usual wait and see what skill runes might offer here (which might be the case).
Some Skill Suggestions:(focuses on fire and poison passives)
-Totem - Active - 5 ranks
(Witch Doctor chooses a spot from which to erect a magical Totem that enhancts enemies and attracts them towards itself for a period of time while also blinding them).
-Plague Doctor - Passive - 5 ranks
(Increases the Witch Doctor Poison Resistance, increases damage for Poison skills).
-Fire Dancer - Passive - 5 ranks
(Increases the Witch Doctor Fire Resistance, increases damage for Fire skills, makes fire attacks do 150% more damage against the undead)
-Flame and Venom - Passive - 2 ranks
Slightly increases damage for fire and poison attack types and makes them both have more chance to do criticals and increases the duration the critical side-effects last for)
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4-Regarding the Monk:-
Weapons - Possible new Monk weapon types:
-Three Part Staff (2h) -------------- (A staff that can be detached into three chain-linked parts - has decent range)
-Steel Spiked Nunchaku --------- (Can be Dual wielded) (short range but very fast weapon)
-Steel Tonfa --------------------------- (Can be Dual wielded) (A defensive weapon type that has a slight chance of blocking)
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Phew, congrats, you finished reading one prettty long post, give yourself a pat on the back and go eat some cookies or drink a cup of coffee
****No Barbarians, Wizards, Witch Doctors or Monks were harmed during the making of this list****
Ahm ... also ... feel free to discuss, bash, point out anything you think is wrong or far fetched, this list of observations and suggestions is far from perfect and has a lot of guessing and lack of information behind it .. so share your thought if you feel inclined to
|||Just giving a brief reply to the barbarian notes. Off to bed in a min so keeping it short.Quote:
Specific observations:
1-Stubborn (the Passive skill that reduces slowing effects) needs to have something more to it, currently there isn't enough at all to encourage people to invest in it just to counter the little possibility of being affected by some slowing effect at some point in the game
Even though we don't have the faintest idea how common slowing effects (snares) will be, I agree that merging it with another skill might be a good idea. Still, it depends on the rarity (or lack thereof) of snares and how big a reduction the skill grants, so it's very possible the skill is quite decent as it is.
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2-The combination of Berserker State and Onslaught is quite awkward IMO (as far as i understand you need to be in Berserker state to be able to use the active skill Onslaught .. yet you don't have control on Berserker state since it is a passive), so unless Berserker State has a very decent chance of occurring and also must have a very clear visual and audio effects (to tell players they can use Onslaught now .. other wise they won't notice in the heat of combat and Onslaught will be just there on the skills tab collecting dust)
Semi-active skills (conditional/reactive skills) are very interesting from a designer point of view because they give a temporary change of playstyle by rewarding attentive players and making your basic attack rotation less monotonous, as it might otherwise become when you're using abilities that are always available. As long as the incentive to use the skills is high enough and the time frame in which the skill is usable isn't too short, they are a good addition to the game and generally nothing to worry about.
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3-Weapon Throw is quite strange, Won't the Barb be able to use any sort of Bows or Throwing-weapons in order to need a skill like this !!? i can't quite grasp how this one works or what's the concept behind it, personally i hope it gets changed or updated into something more clear and understandable.
This is a perfect example of a skill not making sense because we don't know how it works
. I think you throw your weapon and it magically returns after a second or two, perhaps disarming you for the duration and perhaps not. Sounds like the skill you'd use when enemies are (physically) out of reach or maybe fleeing when low on health. Potential PvP skill as well, used to apply passive effects like Cripple etc.Quote:
4-The Trio (Scavenge / Invigorated / Recovery) feel they need a little bit more to them (Later will mention the similar Trio of passives the Wizard has in Conjuring tree) ... i.e each one needs adding more attributes or buffs at higher levels so that not all Barb build end up having to invest in all three skills in order to gain a meaningful benefit ..
Not much to add here as I have no idea how useful they currently are. That said, there's no point comparing them with similar skills possessed by other classes as the other classes are very different and therefore balanced in accordance to their own needs, rather than what other classes have.
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5-Revenge (Active skill that is an AoE with limited use that also heals the Barbarian) doesn't feel like it serves a specific role or a new function, the Barb already has enough Battle cries that cover most meaningful functions, i hope also this one gets an update of change of function, also Bloodthirst (Active skill that heals the Barbarian some of the damage he deals) can be combined in some way with Revenge to create something more interesting (will suggest an alternative in the next section)
Both Revenge and Bloodthirst are essentially ripped straight out of WoW, where Revenge is a defensive warrior skill used almost exclusively by tanks and Bloodthirst an offensive warrior skill commonly used to damage dealing warriors. I'm guessing the developers wanted to fill the same roles in D3 but modified the spells slightly to better fit in that context, as it seems likely the barbarian will be D3s "tank" at least until the first expansion, so he needs some handy defensive skills. No real comment on BT, other than it perhaps being a bit too niche and might work better if merged with a skill that's slightly more baseline.
Meh, so much for the "brief" reply.|||Quote:
Even though we don't have the faintest idea how common slowing effects (snares) will be, I agree that merging it with another skill might be a good idea. Still, it depends on the rarity (or lack thereof) of snares and how big a reduction the skill grants, so it's very possible the skill is quite decent as it is.
I agree we don't have an exact idea on how much often we will be affected by slowing effects but i don't think it will be that common (specially that other character don't have any skill similar to this) to warrant a skill specifically to counter its effects with no other benefit than this.
Also Sprint is exactly the similar case, if you had very mobility based skills like Leap and Furious Charge i don't see a hi-lv Barb needing a skill that only increases his running speed and only tmp. .. it just feel very weak (as sprint is an active skill), so i think the best option is really combining them into one skill to give people more reasons to use it.
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Semi-active skills (conditional/reactive skills) are very interesting from a designer point of view because they give a temporary change of playstyle by rewarding attentive players and making your basic attack rotation less monotonous, as it might otherwise become when you're using abilities that are always available. As long as the incentive to use the skills is high enough and the time frame in which the skill is usable isn't too short, they are a good addition to the game and generally nothing to worry about.
Still there is Overlap between Wrath of Barbarian and Onslaught, they both increase Barbarian combat stats, but one of them requires some conditional passive that activates on its own and the other is fully controlled by the player ... in the end most players will pick Wrath of Barbarian because they can choose when to activate it and when not to.
In short conditional passive skills that activate on their own and aren't active all the time (like most passives) shouldn't be given that importance or be hi-lv skills, they usually stab the user in the back, how ? ... well imagine you are fighting a fallen imp and your Berserker state suddenly decides to activate .. do you really feel you wanted it now or even feel the need to use Onslaught !!? .. definitely no .. on the other hand while fighting some tough unique or boss it could very well betray you and never activate when you most need it ... which is very lame and too based on pure luck.
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This is a perfect example of a skill not making sense because we don't know how it works
. I think you throw your weapon and it magically returns after a second or two, perhaps disarming you for the duration and perhaps not. Sounds like the skill you'd use when enemies are (physically) out of reach or maybe fleeing when low on health. Potential PvP skill as well, used to apply passive effects like Cripple etc.I understand that, but i still can't imagine how it will work if we hold a bow for example and try to use it, or what use will throwing-weapons be for the barb if he can throw any weapon be it an axe, a 2 handed sword or a maul .. i hope they really explain this one.
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Not much to add here as I have no idea how useful they currently are. That said, there's no point comparing them with similar skills possessed by other classes as the other classes are very different and therefore balanced in accordance to their own needs, rather than what other classes have.
I wasn't talking about the specific functions of the skills but the design philosophy which is the same for both Trios.
So there is indeed lots of meaning in comparing them to the Wiz passives, if you view both trio of skills and how they are placed in their respective trees you will see that they are designed in exactly the same way (three dependent passives each improving only one single aspect of the character)
I tried making few theoretical builds for both the Wiz and the Barb and every time i had a problem with this Trio of skill for both .. i either had to ignore all three or just dump point in all of them in order to gain a meaningful benefit.|||Quote:
Still there is Overlap between Wrath of Barbarian and Onslaught, they both increase Barbarian combat stats, but one of them requires some conditional passive that activates on its own and the other is fully controlled by the player ... in the end most players will pick Wrath of Barbarian because they can choose when to activate it and when not to.
They have slightly different fury costs and differ somewhat in function, but overall they are indeed quite similar, perhaps even to the point where I find it likely one of them will be changed considerably. Some other barbarian skills suffer from this problem as well, leading one to believe the Blizzcon demo build skills were more of a showcase of ideas rather than functionally useful and distinct skills.
The reason the typical player would choose WotB over Onslaught isn't so much because Onslaught is reactive, but because WotB pierces physical immunity and is about 10 times more powerful than Onslaught overall. If they nerfed WotB to the point where it's worse than Onslaught, the choice wouldn't be as easy.
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In short conditional passive skills that activate on their own and aren't active all the time (like most passives) shouldn't be given that importance or be hi-lv skills
On the contrary, they are more interesting than active skills just because they're not always available, which promotes the use of other, lower tier skills while waiting for procs. Typically, powerful high-level skills tend to make lower tier skills obsolete by design so by reducing their availability the developers circumvent that problem. The reason they're seeminly powerful is because they need to be - using them requires more effort and if the effort isn't worth it then people will just stick to using the old skills. If they're too powerful then they become mandatory, so balance is key.
As for luck playing a role: yes, of course. If they become too reliable then they're too similar to active skills, which is a bad thing because the reason they're conditional in the first place is so they differ from active skills. I don't know exactly how they'll work out in D3, but I'm used to such skills in WoW and Titan Quest and they work out great there.
Done properly, reactive skills end up as a powerful bonus that complements your other skills rather than simply replacing them.
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I understand that, but i still can't imagine how it will work if we hold a bow for example and try to use it, or what use will throwing-weapons be for the barb if he can throw any weapon be it an axe, a 2 handed sword or a maul .. i hope they really explain this one.
The way I read it, you just chuck whatever weapon you're holding, most likely as long as it's not throwable by default. I doubt it works with bows because it doesn't really need to - Revenge only works with a shield, Double Strike only works when dual-wielding, so Weapon Throw isn't unique in being restrictive.
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So there is indeed lots of meaning in comparing them to the Wiz passives, if you view both trio of skills and how they are placed in their respective trees you will see that they are designed in exactly the same way (three dependent passives each improving only one single aspect of the character)
Still, you don't know how much healing the different classes will need because they're inherently different. Some have more defensive skills than others, some are melee and take more damage than others, some likely have more hitpoints than others and so on. As boring as the next part sounds: we should probably wait and see for a while before analyzing that particular set of abilities closer.|||Quote:
If they nerfed WotB to the point where it's worse than Onslaught, the choice wouldn't be as easy.
If they nerf WotB this badly then i think it won't be even usable XD
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On the contrary, they are more interesting than active skills just because they're not always available, which promotes the use of other, lower tier skills while waiting for procs. Typically, powerful high-level skills tend to make lower tier skills obsolete by design so by reducing their availability the developers circumvent that problem. The reason they're seeminly powerful is because they need to be - using them requires more effort and if the effort isn't worth it then people will just stick to using the old skills. If they're too powerful then they become mandatory, so balance is key.
As for luck playing a role: yes, of course. If they become too reliable then they're too similar to active skills, which is a bad thing because the reason they're conditional in the first place is so they differ from active skills. I don't know exactly how they'll work out in D3, but I'm used to such skills in WoW and Titan Quest and they work out great there.
Done properly, reactive skills end up as a powerful bonus that complements your other skills rather than simply replacing them.
The problem with our case is not that Berserker State is a reactive passive that activates randomly .. i'm ok with that, the real problem is making an active skill dependent on a reactive passive that activates randomly, that's what i find hard to swallow.
Specially that this specific active has an alternative (Wrath of the Berserker) that works as any normal active skill would and does the same effect to a great extent ... why waste so many points on Two skills that totally depend on luck when you can put half of it in One skill and control it as you wish.
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The way I read it, you just chuck whatever weapon you're holding, most likely as long as it's not throwable by default. I doubt it works with bows because it doesn't really need to - Revenge only works with a shield, Double Strike only works when dual-wielding, so Weapon Throw isn't unique in being restrictive.
The problem is that it seems to be the opposite of the typical restrictions you mentioned, i can understand a skill like (double throw) that works with throwable weapons only for example, but a skill that allows you to throw every weapon in the game except bow feels kinda weird for me, what are throwing weapons for then ?
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Still, you don't know how much healing the different classes will need because they're inherently different. Some have more defensive skills than others, some are melee and take more damage than others, some likely have more hitpoints than others and so on. As boring as the next part sounds: we should probably wait and see for a while before analyzing that particular set of abilities closer.
Again, i'm not comparing the barb to the wiz, i'm just noting that those three skills in both trees are designed in the same way ... like i said .. three passives that are dependent on each other and each one only gives a very small benefit/boost ... it just happens that the Wiz and the Barb have such skills but i'm in no way comparing the wiz skills to the barb ones or comparing the classes to each other.
In short i'm criticizing the idea of making three passives linked together and dependent on each other when each one clearly gives only very little benefit .. forcing people to either invest in them all or ignore them all .. better just fuse them into one passive and be done with it.|||Quote:
The problem is that it seems to be the opposite of the typical restrictions you mentioned, i can understand a skill like (double throw) that works with throwable weapons only for example, but a skill that allows you to throw every weapon in the game except bow feels kinda weird for me, what are throwing weapons for then ?
Well, the bow and throwing weapon provide you with a ranged attack by default, so Weapon Throw doesn't need to extend to them. As I interpret it, the purpose of Weapon Throw is to give the player an easily available ranged attack, as they're currently unable to weapon swap to a bow/throwing weapon because D3 lacks a weapon swap feature. I'm really just speculating wildly here, though, as nobody seems to know exactly how the skill works.
Interestingly, unless I missed something, none of the barbarian skills support the traditional ranged weaponry. Perhaps the developers are saving the entire ranged niche - bows and throwing weapons - for the remaning class, or perhaps they simply haven't gotten around to creating those skills for the barbarian yet. Bows I can understand but throwing weapons are a different matter as they were a part of the barbarian class in D2, so one would expect them to return in some shape or form in D3. On the other hand, such weapons really fit a fifth, rogue-ish character... :)
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In short i'm criticizing the idea of making three passives linked together and dependent on each other when each one clearly gives only very little benefit .. forcing people to either invest in them all or ignore them all .. better just fuse them into one passive and be done with it.
This I can definitely agree with. I'm thinking the developers wanted to spread the benefit out a bit so as to not make it too obvious a choice. If it was a one-point-wonder skill then it would appear pretty mandatory because it combines several passive, positive effects into one. By spreading the effects out, they require more of an investment to obtain and they're not all immediately available due to being in different tiers. Still, when the developers decide to streamline the tree a bit and merge some of the more redundant skills, the "trio" you mentioned seems a good candidate for the latter.|||Quote:
Well, the bow and throwing weapon provide you with a ranged attack by default, so Weapon Throw doesn't need to extend to them. As I interpret it, the purpose of Weapon Throw is to give the player an easily available ranged attack, as they're currently unable to weapon swap to a bow/throwing weapon because D3 lacks a weapon swap feature. I'm really just speculating wildly here, though, as nobody seems to know exactly how the skill works.
Fine then, good point, i guess we will leave it at that until Blizz decides to reveal more info about the Barb skills.
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Interestingly, unless I missed something, none of the barbarian skills support the traditional ranged weaponry. Perhaps the developers are saving the entire ranged niche - bows and throwing weapons - for the remaning class, or perhaps they simply haven't gotten around to creating those skills for the barbarian yet. Bows I can understand but throwing weapons are a different matter as they were a part of the barbarian class in D2, so one would expect them to return in some shape or form in D3. On the other hand, such weapons really fit a fifth, rogue-ish character...
I understand that ranged weapons are possibly going to be saved for the fifth class but still like you said the Barb already had weapon throwing abilities in D2 that improve his utilization for weapons like throwing axes and such, it opens up more build options so its sad to see them remove that aspect of the character, hope they decide to keep it.
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This I can definitely agree with. I'm thinking the developers wanted to spread the benefit out a bit so as to not make it too obvious a choice. If it was a one-point-wonder skill then it would appear pretty mandatory because it combines several passive, positive effects into one. By spreading the effects out, they require more of an investment to obtain and they're not all immediately available due to being in different tiers. Still, when the developers decide to streamline the tree a bit and merge some of the more redundant skills, the "trio" you mentioned seems a good candidate for the latter.
I guess they spread the benefits too thin, i know merging them into one passive might not be the best solution (as it reduces choices, even if they are superficial in our case here), so the opposite .. as in increasing the benefits of each single skill would make investing in one or two of them rewarding ... and separating them will enable each build to take the one that benefits it the most instead of having to dump point in all three even if you might not need the first or the second ones.
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