Respec should be based on character and yet at the same time have LARGE penalties. Like insane gold cost and negative exp (you remain at the same level but u need to compensate to level).
This is to prevent abuse of the system.|||Quote:
You can't save you respec points .. the next character level up they go poof, you can't change builds if you can't save you respec points.
For Ex. .... At level 50 you can only change 5 points of the previously spent 50 points, there is nothing exploitable about it.
And if you keep switching skill every 10 Chr. levels none of your skills will ever be effective enough and you will end up with a messed up character.
This system gives you tha chance to fix mistakes and try a new skill or two but it doesn't allow you to change you whole build at say level 40, 50 or 70 .. that's is NEVER possible.
I'm not sure you understood what I said. Let's try this again:
I said it was similar to saving points or switching from a leveling spec to a destination spec, but I did not imply that the example player was saving respec points in your system. They might save unspent skill points should there be some incentive to do so. However, they can switch around "5" (provided for the sake of argument) points every 10 levels.
DII fire sorc: Somewhere between level 1-9: 5 (in addition to the one needed for a pre-req) points in firebolt. (assume pre 1.10 so synergies don't cloud the issue)
Level 10: pull 5 points out of firebolt, put all 5 in inferno
Level 20: pull 5 points from inferno, put them in fire ball
Level 30: pull 5 points from fireball, put them in meteor
Level 40, 50, ...: pull 5 points from old skills, put them into high level skills until full
Like saving unspent skill points, this increases point expenditure on high-level skills, but in this case the character gets the benefit of having used 5+ (depending on the switching process) at lower levels for leveling purposes, which is like switch from a leveling spec to a destination spec. This will by default define the speed-leveling techniques for those builds. You intend to correct some mistakes, but the system changes the general leveling mechanic. Therein likes the "exploit."
If they still need the latitude of saving skill points, they will still do so, but at less of a penalty because they have some flexible points to work with. This will be more effective than you credit being possible. The switch is not as big or as quick as a full respec, but it does allow a rollover from early leveling skills to a final build.
(Posters are welcome to provide info on dIII skill hierarchies to make this conversation more time-relevant).
Anyways, here's a simpler solution for limited respecs: Allow the player to forfeit experience levels (and thereby attribute points and skill points). Skill pre-requisites must be maintained (if any), but otherwise a player may remove the points as desired. Loss of levels will change the character's ability to use its current gear (some items may become unusable). The character may then re-level, and then assign the regained points as if they were new. Fixing a few mistakes might be okay. Taking a jackhammer to one's build would be no better than picking up 4d6. Worse than no respecs, but better IMO than the other proposals in the thread.|||Quote:
I said it was similar to saving points or switching from a leveling spec to a destination spec, but I did not imply that the example player was saving respec points in your system. They might save unspent skill points should there be some incentive to do so. However, they can switch around "5" (provided for the sake of argument) points every 10 levels.
There is no comparison between a system in which you could [store repsec points] or have the ability to do a [full respec] and a system where you can't.
With storing repsec points or doing full respecs whenever you face a certain area with monsters that are highly resistant to a certain element you can switch ALL you skills on the fly and make them PERFECT to fight the new threat .. ALL you skills .. with limited respecs you can never do that.
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DII fire sorc: Somewhere between level 1-9: 5 (in addition to the one needed for a pre-req) points in firebolt. (assume pre 1.10 so synergies don't cloud the issue)
Level 10: pull 5 points out of firebolt, put all 5 in inferno
Level 20: pull 5 points from inferno, put them in fire ball
Level 30: pull 5 points from fireball, put them in meteor
Level 40, 50, ...: pull 5 points from old skills, put them into high level skills until full
I said that D3 skills work differently from D2 .. you can say it is similar to syringes .. but still different ... switching from "fireball" to "meteor" without switching the corresponding skills that boosts "meteor" for example will break your build .... we are talking about D3 not D2 here.
Changing a build in D3 will be more than just moving five or ten points around ..
way more since many skills are interlinked and affect both each other and your damage, attack rating and defense.
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Anyways, here's a simpler solution for limited respecs: Allow the player to forfeit experience levels (and thereby attribute points and skill points). Skill pre-requisites must be maintained (if any), but otherwise a player may remove the points as desired. Loss of levels will change the character's ability to use its current gear (some items may become unusable). The character may then re-level, and then assign the regained points as if they were new. Fixing a few mistakes might be okay. Taking a jackhammer to one's build would be no better than picking up 4d6. Worse than no respecs, but better IMO than the other proposals in the thread.
It is good for fixing mistakes .. but limits the potential of limited experimenting severely ( trying one or two new skills without changing the current build ) .. the other methods allows for both.
Also note the character builds in D3 won't be one or two skills spams builds like in D2 .. the D3 respec system needs to be designed with that in mind .. it's not D2 .. it's not WOW .. the respec system of D3 has to be designed taking in consideration all the other systems in the game and how skills work (specially the facts that you can use 6 skills on the fly and that all skills are interlinked).|||Quote:
There is no comparison between a system in which you could [store repsec points] or have the ability to do a [full respec] and a system where you can't.
There are, even if YOU hadn't thought of them.
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With storing repsec points or doing full respecs whenever you face a certain area with monsters that are highly resistant to a certain element you can switch ALL you skills on the fly and make them PERFECT to fight the new threat .. ALL you skills .. with limited respecs you can never do that.
This just doesn't happen to be one of those comparisons...
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I said that D3 skills work differently from D2 .. you can say it is similar to syringes .. but still different ... switching from "fireball" to "meteor" without switching the corresponding skills that boosts "meteor" for example will break your build .... we are talking about D3 not D2 here.
The point was to illustrate the concept, not to quibble over specific (and somewhat irrelevant) differences in the two systems. The task would then be to translate the illustration into DIII terms where you pull points from low-level skills (and whatever passive boost skills that go along with them) and put them in higher-level skills (and whatever passive boost skills go along with them, as needed). We could argue over how many points need to go in leveling skills to make them effective at that particular moment in the game, but it would not change my point or reduce its validity in any way. So even if we're talking about DIII as opposed to DII, my point stands, and here you are dodging it.
Edit: To rephrase part of the above with respect to tiers: switching from skills that work well with low-level skills to ones that work with high level skills. Also tiers suggest that limiting respecs is going to be particulary punishing for experimentation (you can thank WoW on this one). With a tier system, nothing short of a (points needed to reach max tier) respec will do for those that want it. Either take my word for it, or find out the hard way.
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Changing a build in D3 will be more than just moving five or ten points around ..
way more since many skills are interlinked and affect both each other and your damage, attack rating and defense.
Maybe at higher levels, but at level 10, we're talking about 50% of the build (give or take skill points earned through other means besides leveling). The player then just moves those points around into another arrangement, and benefits twice. This would be worth taking a few moments to navigate whatever interdependencies that need to be considered.
As an aside: Breaking the "old build" is the point, because we're using the respec to make a new one. Snakes shedding their skins and so on.
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It is good for fixing mistakes .. but limits the potential of limited experimenting severely ( trying one or two new skills without changing the current build ) .. the other methods allows for both.
Weren't you just arguing that 5 or ten points around doesn't change a build for this, that, and the other reason? Nevermind. My proposal doesn't specifically limit a player's ability to experiment. A more accurate description is that experimentation is limited by the player's desire to spend extra time doing so. So a player could give up 5 levels, try a new skill, then decide to keep it or go back by releveling another time. The bigger the change, the more time a player has to be willing to commit. Your suggestion does have a limit: 5*round_down(max_level/10) points total, in increments of 5 at very specific levels. If the character is level x1, then that character is screwed, right? Also, respeccing must change a build by definition.
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Also note the character builds in D3 won't be one or two skills spams builds like in D2 .. the D3 respec system needs to be designed with that in mind .. it's not D2 .. it's not WOW .. the respec system of D3 has to be designed taking in consideration all the other systems in the game and how skills work (specially the facts that you can use 6 skills on the fly and that all skills are interlinked).
I'd doubt this, but that's another discussion. Just mold the previous argument about active skill w/ passives to fit multiple active skills, each with their own passives.|||Why not make character respec a long and involved quest? Something that would require too much effort to be done on a "whim", but that can be repeated if needed? Like say, when Blizzard releases a patch that makes an old build obsolete?
Of course, this still leaves the issue of getting the appropriate gear for a new build.|||Quote:
Why not make character respec a long and involved quest? Something that would require too much effort to be done on a "whim", but that can be repeated if needed? Like say, when Blizzard releases a patch that makes an old build obsolete?
Of course, this still leaves the issue of getting the appropriate gear for a new build.
If Blizzard releases a patch to that effect, there's a fair chance a free respec comes along with it should recent history be a guide.|||I'm against respeccing. While I think it's necessary, or at the most, convenient, in games like WoW, I don't think a respec system belongs in D3.
Unless D3 is drastically different from D2 and geared ALOT more towards multiplayer, the game will likely be pretty balanced as far as characters go, in the sense that every style of character can level for the most part by themselves without a lot of help from other players. I'm not saying multiplayer is a bad thing or anything like that, I love the realms, but the whole point to respeccing is primarily to mix more than one style of character in a party, to achieve maximum efficiency to killing monsters/bosses, such as games like WoW, where you just can't do certain things without alot of other players. IMO, this shouldn't be necessary in D3.
Even limited respec system will likely break the game, because in order for them to be effective enough, they will allow to you to completely change your build, which shouldn't be necessary in D3.
90% of the fun of D1 and D2 was just leveling a character and figuring out what you like best, not making sure you get the optimum build for taking on uber-diablo's and stuff like that.
In the event that a respec system is in place, its got to be extremely limited to the point where it won't change your overall build, but rather is meant to fix a mistaken skill-point spent in the wrong skill. With this kind of option, you could include it as a one-time quest reward. For example, with a quest like Izual in D2 A4, instead of rewarding you with 2 new skill points, the reward would be to alter 1 or 2 skill-points to another skill if you wanted. Not sure if I like this idea, but just throwing it out there as an option.
of course, if you have quest rewards that grant additional skill points (like the Izual quest), that alone would be enough to eliminate any need to fix 1 or 2 mistakenly-placed skill points.|||problem is you dont really see the full power of some build until high lvl...so this is pretty stupid if they do it like that....every 10 lvl being able to respec..i might as well go with that build and get another account going....i seriously dont want to spend my entire playthrough respec-ing every 10 lvl to try every build possible if they want to limit us with fewer account...that would be really boring to play...what if my 99 build suck BAD?...i have to restart?..oh yeah that sooooo fun /rolleye...i might as well wait to see what are the OP class and build in the same way like everyone is doing atm
since SO MUCH PEOPLE whine about gold being useless(i really dont get it) they might as well put it to some use...max lvl should spend max gold held in chest to respect...there you go...if they remove exploit and bot there isnt a problem...merc+a respec on lvl 99 would be ;_;...even if in D2 at the beginning of ladder i sometime get a hard time with the damn money for the merc and i have to stop and go farm some to get some gear from hell i still do it...well i would just do it even more to try and get a respec and try other build just for the fun
imo that way is about 100x better then what you offer
p.s:Tommerbob...respec is needed because skill are a really HUGE part of D3...even bigger then WoW were talent are just improving your character...skill in Diablo MAKE your character...people have TONS of account and it probly doesnt help the server at all....they will probly limit us with account and give us enough slot for each class..when you want to try another build(even if you didint screw up) i think i would love that 100x more then creating new char all over again and put stress on the server even more...that way they can control even more the exploit of the game and such by having to check fewer account and i really dont get what multiplayer would have anything to do with needing more respec...and pure balance will never exist...its a non stop rush for more power and making the other one weaker...with that many class and different playstyle and skill and tactic and equipment....its not just possible to make it easy for everyone....some class will eventualy have it harder...whether you like it or not
another way to make the respec system work is it start you back to lvl 1 and give you an xp bonus depending on what lvl you were on before...and would end when you hit that lvl again..simple and would not make people want to create other account or scrap their char to remake(people that played disgaea will understand what im talking about exacly...not that its hard to understand O_o)|||How about it costs money to respec, and I dont mean gold. The money can then be used to combat bots. Makes it so casuals have access to it, and limits respec.|||Quote:
How about it costs money to respec, and I dont mean gold. The money can then be used to combat bots. Makes it so casuals have access to it, and limits respec."
Roflmao. I seriously hope you are joking.
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p.s:Tommerbob...respec is needed because skill are a really HUGE part of D3...even bigger then WoW were talent are just improving your character...skill in Diablo MAKE your character..."
That's not a good explanation for respecs. D2 was just fine without respecs, IMO. As I said, most of the fun was in the leveling and figuring out what you personally liked best. Hammerdins are the most popular for obvious reasons, but I still prefer the zealadin.
Oh and BTW, WoW talents DO define your character. Ever try tanking with a Holy Paladin? Haha I'd like to see that. Granted there can be some cross-talent speccing, ultimately your spec makes you who you are.
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and pure balance will never exist...its a non stop rush for more power and making the other one weaker...with that many class and different playstyle and skill and tactic and equipment....its not just possible to make it easy for everyone....some class will eventualy have it harder...whether you like it or not
Of course pure balance will never exist. So does that mean we should just throw it out the window? You missed my whole point. D3 is not a MMO, so having specific character builds for different purposes is not a necessity, as it is in games like WoW. It's about your personal playing style. I love the meteorb sorc. Not because its a good build, but because I just like to play it, its fun.
I'm against respeccing, but if it was put in the game, it's gotta be very expensive, and very restrictive. For example, each skill point respecced would cost X gold. That alone would likely solve the gold sink problem.
With the way the skill tree is designed in D3 instead of the D2 style, respeccing wouldn't be such a problem as it would be in D2. For example, in D2, if respeccing was possible, I'd just move all my talents down the skill tree as I got to a higher and higher level. In D3, that's not possible because instead of being character level-based, it is skill tier-based.
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|||the Barb female is fine god im tired of these retard that play female all the time cause they either arent confortable being man or are the type that jackoff to a videogame character /rolleye
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|||I dig the female barb. as long as she takes care of those feet. I can't stand gross feet.|||Just give her bigger boobs... Seems the be the industry's conventional route to make their female characters more appealing to their male audience.
Though they're both pretty ripped.
|||I don't care about the different discrepencies between the genders. In the Doc's case, I think both the female and male look like Witch Doctors, so that's good enough for me. I only hope Blizzard makes the male/female versions stay the same race (I think they will). In other words, it would bug me if the male version of the Wiz turned out to be something other than East Asian. My 2 cents. 
|||more meaningful then... drat... no circumventing the autocensor... I can't complete this post 
|||I think not. Diablo needs to remain the isometric perspective, as always. It's awesome.|||no, isometric all the way, it's part of his charm|||That's the stupidest idea I've ever heard.|||Either the OP has been living in a cave ... or he is a troll ... or both .. lols XD