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Limited repecs is the way to go. . .
. . .If it is going to be implemented it has to be a core part of the game or else it will feel like a cheap gimmick ( something that was added as an after thought ), and as many mentioned it could make a good gold sink ( aside from the 10 repec points all people get every ten character levels you can buy more for a huge gold cost )
Ten respec points all people get every ten levels? So basically every ten levels you can change what you've been doing for the past ten levels? How is that limited?
I thought we were talking about fixing up your build a little, moving around a few points to 'perfect' your build, or fixing a small mistake. Not moving massive chunks of points around every ten levels.
I used to be totally anti-respec, but after I was playing some D2 for a bit, I changed my mind as I saw what most people who want respecs saw. "Oops, I wish I didn't put that point in X skill" or "I wish I would've put one or two less points in X skill and put them in Y and Z instead "
But a possible total of 100 respec points and the ability to buy more (albeit expensive)? WAAAAY too much respeccing. Even if you can't save up more than ten at a time, it is too much.
I'm sorry if I misread your post, or you mistyped, or whatever, but that is way beyond what I think is a respec.|||Quote:
Ten respec points all people get every ten levels? So basically every ten levels you can change what you've been doing for the past ten levels? How is that limited?
I thought we were talking about fixing up your build a little, moving around a few points to 'perfect' your build, or fixing a small mistake. Not moving massive chunks of points around every ten levels.
I used to be totally anti-respec, but after I was playing some D2 for a bit, I changed my mind as I saw what most people who want respecs saw. "Oops, I wish I didn't put that point in X skill" or "I wish I would've put one or two less points in X skill and put them in Y and Z instead "
But a possible total of 100 respec points and the ability to buy more (albeit expensive)? WAAAAY too much respeccing. Even if you can't save up more than ten at a time, it is too much.
I'm sorry if I misread your post, or you mistyped, or whatever, but that is way beyond what I think is a respec.
As i have said 20 times before, nobody is forcing you to respecc.
If you dont want to use it you dont have to but let us who want full respecs get that.
I for one dont want to relevel an entire new char of the same class just to try out some diffrent builds.|||Respec as a gold sink.
Zomg I just solved the problem, thread closed, now go talk about something important.|||Quote:
I believe Blizzard has already said that there will be some system for limited respeccing, but I want to make the point that skill respecs and skill resets are not the same, and that one has no place in Diablo III.
Sure, i don't think resets are a good idea, just being able to shift few skill points around every while is all that is needed.
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Ten respec points all people get every ten levels? So basically every ten levels you can change what you've been doing for the past ten levels? How is that limited?
The concept is limited indeed, numbers can easily be tweaked to make that more apparent, like 5 respecs every ten levels ... so simply at level 10 you can shift around 5 points .. at level 20 you can shift around 5 points out of the 20 you have allocated ... at say level 50 you could shift around 5 points out of the 50 points you allocated before ... that is obviously limited.
And did i mention you can't stock respec points .. meaning for example if you reach level 11 and didn't respec those 5 points they are gone ... poof.
As for buying .. it can be extremely expensive so that end game player only can get them since they can't do any respecs anymore after reaching level 100 ... for purposes of PvP .. and of course its cost will be high enough to make any attempt at spamming it a total waste of money.|||Quote:
As i have said 20 times before, nobody is forcing you to respecc.
If you dont want to use it you dont have to but let us who want full respecs get that.
Give players an incentive to do something and they will do it, whether or not they want to. Consider, for example, the fact that until 1.10 hardcore Diablo II players spent more time in the Cow level than practically anywhere else, even though most of them hated it. They spent that much time in the Cow level because it was efficient and easy, not because it was fun.
Skill resets would have a similar effect on Diablo III. Not because there is anything inherently wrong with allowing new players a reset - it does suck to botch your first character and have to start over. The problem is that any reset system would end up being abused more than used. Just like the Cow level was abused to tediously but efficiently level characters in a way devoid of any challenge, skill resets would give players an incentive to play the game in an uninteresting, easy way. Why? Every character would use the same efficiency maximizing build to clear any potential speed bumps before speccing into something unique. The leveling game would, again, become a chore and not a challenge. A chore to get a faceless blank slate from Normal to Hell before giving him a identity.
I would argue that leveling should be an experience, not a chore, and that a character's identity should evolve along a somewhat linear path, like a journey. A well designed respec system will allow players to fine tune that journey, not render it meaningless.
I hope my argument is convincing. If a segment of the player base is adamant that they want skill resets, Blizzard should segregate Battle.net between those that do and those that don't.|||IMO the benefit of a re-spec option is that the nerf bat can never ruin a character you've spent hundreds of hours playing.
I do not like your ideas, because it takes away this protection. Besides, it's fun to swap around your skills to play a new style every once in awhile. Why would you want to make a whole new character just to experiment?
Finally, the "cookie cutter" builds will be used no matter what. You cannot preserve your lol "leetness" by not allowing people to easily copy your strategy. Once an effecient build is found, people will flock to it even if that means starting a new character.
On the other hand, if re-specing is ALWAYS an option, their is less "risk" involved in playing a build off the beaten path. In fact, a person could make their build on the fly in order to take advantage of their newest item find that isn't perfect but has some use with certain skills. I believe this will result in a more diverse player skill set base than the "blank slate" from Normal to Hell opinion listed above.
Finally, if they want to make it "painful to respec." Give players one point every time they gain X # of experience. Then limit a character to only being able to hold a few points at once. Each point can be traded in to remove a skill point selection and then redistribute as desired. This would result in very slow character changes, but would always allow for the option to change one's build.|||I think this might be a reasonable way to do it, although at the same time, I don't want to see any "limits" (no timers, no counters, no nothing).
I really think they should just leave out the respecs. I mean, you can be PvM and then have a respec and change to PvP skills and change your gear and boom you're done. But then what's the fun of that?|||Also remember that some of us dont have time to lvl up a new char all the time between work and all that ****|||Quote:
IMO the benefit of a re-spec option is that the nerf bat can never ruin a character you've spent hundreds of hours playing.
A potential problem, yes, but there are better ways to deal with it. It's also worth mentioning right off the bat that, if Diablo III is to continue the tradition of the first two games, most of those hundreds of hours would be spent gathering gear, not just leveling. Leveling in the Diablo games is relatively quick compared to other RPGs. Gathering gear is the hard part, but something that happens automatically while playing.
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..it's fun to swap around your skills to play a new style every once in awhile. Why would you want to make a whole new character just to experiment?
Because creating new characters will be a major part of the game's longevity. You are essentially advocating the removal of that element.
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Finally, the "cookie cutter" builds will be used no matter what. You cannot preserve your lol "leetness" by not allowing people to easily copy your strategy. Once an effecient build is found, people will flock to it even if that means starting a new character.
If you are trying to respond to any particular point I made, you misunderstood it. The point is that there would be no reason to level a character using anything but an efficient leveling build. No point farming bosses with anything but an efficient farming build. And so forth. Part of what made Diablo II interesting was that, with a few exceptions, no build was good at everything, and making a particular character was occasionally a challenge. I am of the opinion that challenge not only enriches the games we play, but is in fact why we play them.
Committing to, say, a Geomancer Druid took some gumption. The early levels were difficult, and the build never really blossomed until sometime in Nightmare. It was a fun, challenging experience that, had there been an option to fully respec, would not have been necessary. Making a Geomancer Druid would have been as simple as playing Feral for fifty levels and then respeccing. Diablo II would have been the worse for it.
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On the other hand, if re-specing is ALWAYS an option, their is less "risk" involved in playing a build off the beaten path. In fact, a person could make their build on the fly in order to take advantage of their newest item find that isn't perfect but has some use with certain skills. I believe this will result in a more diverse player skill set base than the "blank slate" from Normal to Hell opinion listed above.
But the risk is what makes it fun! If it doesn't take any effort to create an unconventional kind of character, there is no value in having one.
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Finally, if they want to make it "painful to respec." Give players one point every time they gain X # of experience. Then limit a character to only being able to hold a few points at once. Each point can be traded in to remove a skill point selection and then redistribute as desired. This would result in very slow character changes, but would always allow for the option to change one's build.
A better route to the same undesirable destination. It seems like you and I just want fundamentally different experiences from Diablo III, and that those wants are pretty much irreconcilable.
There should be two different Battle.net realms, one serving my faction and another serving yours. Separate but equal.|||Hey, I like a challenge too and I also love playing new types of characters! That's one reason I love Guild War's re-spec option *ducks for cover...
Anyways, I would agree with you that new characters are fun to play, but I must disagree that the game isn't a grind to level or that the gear you find helps your next new character, since there are attribute requirements.
Maybe they've made leveling faster since I last played... idk. Most of my time was pre patch 1.10.
I remember playing a game where there was a million different kinds of items that could drop, but the stuff I always got never matched my choosen skills. If respecing without penality was possible, I'd have had the option to tweak my character on the fly, as I came across those new weapons. Sure the skills changes wouldn't be permenate, but they'd keep the game fresh while I keep treasuring hunting for the +skill gear that will make my hammerdin unstoppable.
By the way, what's the point in having two different battlenets for respecing or not? The only thing I can think of is bragging rights. Sure I might burn out faster on the game, but if I had the choice to re-spec, my outcome is guaranteed anyways.
IMO the value of a character is derived from the fun you have playing them, and if you wanted to use the same skills all the way through, then why not choose to ignore the respec option?
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