The only slots where rares can't compete are Armour and Shield slots.
This link tends to disagree.
http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/s...d.php?t=655990|||Quote:
This link tends to disagree.
http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/s...d.php?t=655990
Come on...
No caster's going to use that, so it's a melee armour.
Which means it has to contend with:
Forti
eStone (even a non eStone will have almost identical defence, more fhr, stats and all res...)
eDuress
All of which blow that out of the water...|||But no extra sockets for ultimate customizibility.
Certain builds can use rares in certain spots, but really... there are uniques that are simply irreplacable, especially for casters such as Arachnid Mesh and SoJ, and obviously items such as Stormshield for about everyone. I would like to see a greater variety of rare prefixes and suffixes, and slightly toned down uniques... because right now SS, Sojs, Arachnid Mesh, Shako, Orbs (rares cant spawn with enough +skills to compete with even the Occy and never with any - enemy resist). I'd also like to see further item customization options; i always like in d2 how you can build a great item in several parts; first searching for a plain or magical item with staffmods, superior status, adding sockets (or getting lucky), and then finding the runes or jewels to complete a powerful item, whether it be by making a runeword or just adding attributes. Not only does it make untwinked play very interesting, but it makes the items very unique. Im a little disappointed that they said they arent interested in runewords, because while they got a little crazy and way way op after 1.10 the original concept was a great one.|||Peli, rare orb with +2 All sorc, +3 Main Attack Skill, +3 Mastery, 20 FCR, 2 Sockets.
Put 2 x 5/5 Facets in...
Yeah, there's no way that's better than an Occy...no way at all...
FCR Rings with High stats etc can be better than Sojs.
FCR Circ with Skills can be better than Shako.
Arach is OP I agree.
And as I stated, Rares can't compete in Body Armour or Shield areas, but can do so in every other slot.|||Actually that ONE orb would be better than an occy I admit.... but it's still lacking MF and resall, not to mention 10% fcr, and some life/mana (which you were even luckier than the one in a million roll you'd need to roll that orb in the first place you could roll some of those). If you for some reason wanted to make occy competitive again you could always sock it with a facet too. Although you do lose the random tele...
And that orb doesn't compete with a perf (unless you're cold spec)escutas.
Plus, the occy is a ver common easy to get drop. You'd need an astounding amount of patience or some amazing luck to get a roll like that for your orb; sure it might be better now but just a tiny flaw (noFCR, or maybe just +2 to mastery/primary skill) and its almost not worth having (except for the lack of teleport). Add to that the additional effort to get the perf facets...good luck. A lot of effort/luck for an item which is marginally better than an extremely common nightmare drop. Don't get me wrong, i LOVE the rare system, and I like being able to find/create your own amazing stuff. I just think the uniques are too powerful, past normal mode. Expecially the class specific uniques (good luck trying to roll something better than say, arreats face; for something other than a singer).
FCR rings have their place... but SoJ is hands down better unless you need the FCR. The only reason FCR rings/ammies/circs have their niche is because IMO bliz didn't realize anyone would stack 200+ fcr until they stopped caring about diablo.|||No, even a magic 3 Tree, 3 Main skill, 3 Mastery, 2 sock orb is better than Occy.
+6 to main skill and mastery is better than %age damage increase from Eschutas too. Since the %age from eschutas doesn't multiply with Mastery values, but is additive. - Res is much better than +%age
As for losing MF, switch = win.
Res all, its virtualy obsolete with stuff like Anni, Torch, and open sockets.
Sorry, 10 FCR, dual stats, res etc is better than +1 skill. The damage output from going 7 frame for a sorc (assuming FB here), is better than the damage output from going 8 frame and with the extra + skills.
FCR on a ring also allows you to go for items other than FCR in other slots, meaning potentially more facets etc. Ever wondered why most duelers use FCR rings instead of a SoJ? Yeah, coz they're better overall.
As for getting something better than Class Specific Uniques;
Depending on what you want, helms are better than Arreats; CoA, Guilliames just to name 2. Visionary rare Circ with 2 open Sockets, and other mods would dump all over Arreats.
Bartucs? Chaos, Fury, Fools Claw, Magic Traps claws, Rare traps claws just to name some.
Occy? Rare orbs, magic orbs, Deaths Fathom, Wiz Spike, HotO...
HoZ? Exile, Spirit.
Lycanders Flank / Aim? Please, pathetic.
Jalals? Rare circs for casters, same sort of stuff as is better than Arreats for Melee.
Titans is hard to get better than, but a 6/40 Magic Javs would be better for Ele damage javas, and an Eth Rare with ED would be better for phys ones.
Homo is also hard, but magic 3/3/3/2 heads would be better, or a Spirit, or a Storm.
This proves that there is stuff that will beat Uniques in LoD, yes its hard to get, but ITS HARD TO GET in Classic too. Uber rares don't drop out of the sky in Classic, which is why uniques are also OP there. Since they are easier to find and have fixed stats, so you KNOW what you're getting.
For every Unique item you can list that is OP for a certain build, there is a rare item that is OP for a different build, maybe even a Magic.|||Err, I'm sorry. I never played classic so I can't really judge the argument of classic vs LOD. I'm simply saying that 90%+ of players run around with uniques in most of their slots because its the best they can find. Tone down the uniques and ramp up the rares slightly, so that you don't have to win the hypothetical lottery to find a rare you can use over common uniques. That's why I chose the class-specifics as an example; they're dirt cheap and easy to find and they almost completely obviate the need to find rares for those slots; with the exception of lycanders aim/flank... those are a cruel joke.
And I meant finding a RARE that's better than Arreats face. we could debate all day as to which gear is better than what but the bottom line is that the uniques are so good as to make a rare that is better than most decent uniques to be basically a lightning strike. I hope that will change in d3.
Also, you lost me on Eschutas. The +damage is so-so but it has crazy FCR, enough so that I dont see how a rare could beat it; and it can still be socked with a single facet. Wizzy... yea thats a separate story, and again tough to find a rare to beat it. \o/ I dont want to argue equipment with you because it gets us nowhere... but are you basically saying that you want the system to remain more or less the same? Or are you just pointing out minor indescrepancies you see? It seems like you appreciate the random aspect of the item system, and so do I; I just think the item system should become MORE random if anything, maybe with rares having a chance to generate impossible mods like %PDR or -enemy resist or that sort of thing, and the uniques NOT being the staple of almost every build out there; right now only very rich and knowledgible or plain lucky people can afford to craft or farm rares that are better than uniques. I say, tone down the uniques a shade. Make the average player just a little bit excited to see that yellow drop because theres actually a chance it could be an upgrade for them.|||I like the system the way it is now, and would rather it isn't changed much.
The possibility of finding godly rares is there, but finding the right unique is easier due to multiple reasons, MF is easy to get increasing chances, you can farm for a specific item (doing norm Andy for Bloodfists or whatever), and you KNOW what the stats are, so planning a char is easier.
Lets do some quick math here since I want to find out your position on this matter.
Lets assume that there is a;
1/1000 chance of finding an Arreats Face
1/50 chance of finding a rare Slayer Guard (high chance due to failed set roll)
1/10 chance of finding a magic Slayer Guard
Now, for every 1000 Slayer Guards we find, we will find 1 Arreats Face, 100 Magic and 20 Rare.
Now, for every Arreats we find, we find 20 rare ones.
How often would you like a rare Slayer Guard to be better than an Arreats face? 1/20? 1/200? 1/5?
When you've answered this I'll come back and expand where I'm going with this.|||The perfect rare with all the right modifiers is much harder to find than a unique. So it should be better. Uniques are for people who don't want to think about their items and just want to read a shopping list in a guide...|||Oh I think I see where you're going with this, and to answer...
According to the math if 1 in 20 were better you'd find them both at about the same incidence. (Although, I could be wrong on this because my d2 math is fuzzy form years of non-use, but I thought a failed set was rolled as a magic item with 3x normal dura.)
Ok, bear with me here because I had never thought this out in terms of exact (or near exact) numbers or probabilities.
Using the numbers from your example, we find 1 AF every 1000 bugged Baal runs (or whatever, that was what Atma told me had the closest to 1:1000, baal first kill with 800 MF). We find 20 Rares. We also find a number of similar rares that could easily substitute for the slayer guard; Savage helm, Fury Visor, Carnage Helm are all so similar as to be interchangable, another 4-5 helms are close but not exactly interchangable. This holds true with most rare-unique changeovers, except caster gear, where a sorc doesn't care whether she gets a Eagle Orb or Dimensional Shard, the mods are all that matter, and a rare will only roll with 2 sockets anyways, and weapons; the weapon categories don't really homogenize as well as armor, but regardless a weapon can most of the time overlap between several base items and still be very close to a unique in quality and use. Obviously our zealadin wants a phase blade and thats that, but we'll disregard that because it makes our math more difficult and we dont want that.
Therefore our uber rare has an advantage in that it can be rolled from several different base items most of the time. Back to the original example. For every 20 Slayer guards dropped, about 16 Savage helmets and 35 Fury Visors and 35 Carnage Helms will also drop, basically multiplying the odds to get a comprable rare by about 4.5. We also get 40 Avenger guards and 20 Lion Helms and 50 Jawbone Visors, which can all be upped to give us one of the above. In the time that the one Arreats face drops, we get almost 200 other rare barb helms that have a chance to roll similar or better stats. IE: 20 Rare slayer guards= 175 more other rare similar barb helms, 195 in total.
Back to that later. To roll appropriate stats to rival AF, we need some hefty stats on a rare. Start with 2 sockets; thats a given no matter what kind of helm you're looking for. +2 barb skills would be good. FHR, Definitely useful. Already we are up to a 1 in 1000 rare, or 1 in 5 (200 rares drop for every AF and 200/1000=1/5). And that helm, while good, is not nearly as good as AF. Add in some staffmods... maybe +BO or +IS or +whatever your main attack is. Now its better than AF in some ways, but to get the right mod, you're seriously bumping up the odds. Maybe you'd get 1 in 10,000 rare barb helms that have Sockets, 2 Barb skills, FHR and 2 good +3 staffmods. That means for every 50 AFs that drop you get a rare thats slightly better in some ways.
My proposition? Tone it down a little bit. the equivalent of AF in d3 should be:
2 Barb skills
20% FHR
15 resall
Lifesteal random
15 str/dex
random%Ed
Still a decent item; but you can actually concievably roll a rare thats better, maybe 1 in 1000 instead of 1 in 10,000. The basic problem for me is that items like AF already come with significantly more mods than could possibly roll on a rare in several areas. The only thing that saves the rare are staffmods and sockets. Our rare can roll with 2 barb skills, like the arreats, or 2 combat skills, but not both. It can roll with a few good resists or 20%resall (tiara, and then no staffmods!) but not 30 resall. It can get 2/3 of the FHR...
IMO uniques should present a significant improvement over rares in a very few aspects, or be a good rare, but not the best. AF in its current form (along with most high end uniques) has better stats than a rare could roll in every aspect. The only rare which is better is a rare which is specialized to do one particular thing (warcries?) and even that rare is, well, rare. Not just rare but astronomical.
You also mention Hellfire Torch and Annhilus. Yea. Those are uniques too, and clearly you cant find a magic charm to compete. They are ridiculous and should never have been put in the game. Adding rare charms would have kept people's interest for longer, and making the uniques something other than ridiculously op, not to mention obviating the need for much of the gear already in the game. The charm system was borderline bad design to start with; those 2 completely broke it, making those exact 2 items prereqs for any good build. Before 1.10, and early 1.10... hell resists were essentially the cornerstone of your build. Now, combine those 2 items with a few resall charms and you have no worries. Meh.
Disclaimer:the numbers and probabilities in this post are not exact, just guesses, backed up by the basic drop calc in Atma. If you disagree then feel free to post your own maths to show a more accurate ratio, I'd be glad to see it.
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