[:1]Tiered Gambling. aka tying TC to cost & enclude sets & uniques
EXAMPLE:-
* Lets just say you want to gamble on a unique sword with a tc of 77.
* You then go thru a menu to get to that particular item.
* The game will ask for a amount.
* You are shown a brief selection of tc77 swords
* Take you pick & hope you get lucky
*The higher the TC, the higher the cost.
By rights you should be able to pull a Tyraels Might Or IK armor but the chances are much less of doing so but substantially more than having them drop out in the field.
( if this sounds like it was written from a D2:LoD stand point please forgive me, I was only using it as an example & nothing else)|||One idea, similar to a Torchlight NPC quest giver, a guy in town can open a portal to a small secluded area for a bunch of gold. The portal is full of random monsters and one tough champion boss. None of the monsters give exp. and the only item that drops is from the boss which is guaranteed to be a rare, set or unique item.
Monster level is scaled to your own as is the possible item you get. If you leave the portal or die it's closed forever.
2012年4月13日星期五
How to make gold relevant. - Page 5
[:1]I think the main thing needed for gold relevance is to decrease supply and increase demand. Economics 101 shouldn't need too much explaining, agreed? In this light, I am hoping for some really fun, exciting ways to spend the gold I get, once I finally get my grubbies on enough to do something with. I have read numerous posts bemoaning the autostat feature, and the resultant lack of customization options. I would think the developers could come up with some really fun options that would solve both "problems."
But it's a good thing I'm not in charge of creative direction, as I can't come up with a good original idea atm.
Dazzle me, Blizzard!
-d|||Blizz mentioned few ways.
You can reset your skills in D3, but it will cost lots of gold.
You can take gems off your items (or make new sockets) but it will cost you lots of gold.|||A. dont let rats drop plate armor that can be sold for 35K, a stupid rat can drop a ring, or 1 gold
B. vendors should not want to buy crappy stuff from u for insane amount of money
C. add socket, empty socket
D. reset STATS
E. reset SKILLPOINTS
F. gamle gems, rune, anything
G. durability, maybe, but dont let durability be a primal focus
H. and shared stash!!! at least for items that makes you wanna create one more class and level. Yes one nice class item can make you wanna level new char from start, its sick.
I. and what does cost in real life???: edit looks and reset gender!
|||I dont think there will be reset stats options since they are automatic now.|||Id like to see a C/S/G/P system.
also having merchants selling items that are useful past the first 10 levels would be a nice addition as well.|||The merchants do sell useful items above for characters level 11 and up.
Don't have monsters drop gold. Gold is payment doled out for random quests. Make the gold available dependent on the gold used in npc transactions.|||Quote:
Seeing the currency is Perfect gems and then runes, what you must do is tie gold to these two currencies. So gamble for flawless gems and runes, then you have it. A million gold is some gems, or maybe a good rune, prolly only ****ty runes but at least some gems, it's your gamble.
I really like this idea.|||Quote:
1) You could buy maps to nearby areas from town. The townspeople would know the areas near the town well, but the further you want to travel the more the maps would cost and they could even have gaps and mistakes in them.
2) Have respeccing cost a lot.
3) Have gold as a trading currency.
4) Restrict the way you get gold. You could get gold only from chests, humanoid monsters, rewards from quests and so on. Why (or how!) maggots carry on gold, anyway?
mmm like the flawed map idea|||I read through 5 pages of comments and this is my take:
1. The most any monster should drop is 50 gold (no one can actually carry more than that) Can you actually imagine a pile of 1,000,000 gold pieces?
2. Monsters should drop items related to them (bugs dropping weapons and armor is just dumb)
3. Weaker monsters should drop runes and charms (they're using them just like the players are to try and become more powerful)
4. A simple blacksmith should not be able to repair my "Sword of Godliness", in later acts have a powerful enchanter repair and sell magical items
5. IMO - Gambling is just a way to waste the overabundance of gold. Limit the gold and drop items that my character needs and I won't waste time gambling.
5A. If you're not gonna drop items I need then have a stash that I can use for all my character classes, not just one.
|||I forgot to say that I also love the idea of using gold to add/reset socket items.
Also using gold to reset skill points or stats.
But it's a good thing I'm not in charge of creative direction, as I can't come up with a good original idea atm.
Dazzle me, Blizzard!
-d|||Blizz mentioned few ways.
You can reset your skills in D3, but it will cost lots of gold.
You can take gems off your items (or make new sockets) but it will cost you lots of gold.|||A. dont let rats drop plate armor that can be sold for 35K, a stupid rat can drop a ring, or 1 gold
B. vendors should not want to buy crappy stuff from u for insane amount of money
C. add socket, empty socket
D. reset STATS
E. reset SKILLPOINTS
F. gamle gems, rune, anything
G. durability, maybe, but dont let durability be a primal focus
H. and shared stash!!! at least for items that makes you wanna create one more class and level. Yes one nice class item can make you wanna level new char from start, its sick.
I. and what does cost in real life???: edit looks and reset gender!
|||I dont think there will be reset stats options since they are automatic now.|||Id like to see a C/S/G/P system.also having merchants selling items that are useful past the first 10 levels would be a nice addition as well.|||The merchants do sell useful items above for characters level 11 and up.
Don't have monsters drop gold. Gold is payment doled out for random quests. Make the gold available dependent on the gold used in npc transactions.|||Quote:
Seeing the currency is Perfect gems and then runes, what you must do is tie gold to these two currencies. So gamble for flawless gems and runes, then you have it. A million gold is some gems, or maybe a good rune, prolly only ****ty runes but at least some gems, it's your gamble.
I really like this idea.|||Quote:
1) You could buy maps to nearby areas from town. The townspeople would know the areas near the town well, but the further you want to travel the more the maps would cost and they could even have gaps and mistakes in them.
2) Have respeccing cost a lot.
3) Have gold as a trading currency.
4) Restrict the way you get gold. You could get gold only from chests, humanoid monsters, rewards from quests and so on. Why (or how!) maggots carry on gold, anyway?
mmm like the flawed map idea|||I read through 5 pages of comments and this is my take:
1. The most any monster should drop is 50 gold (no one can actually carry more than that) Can you actually imagine a pile of 1,000,000 gold pieces?
2. Monsters should drop items related to them (bugs dropping weapons and armor is just dumb)
3. Weaker monsters should drop runes and charms (they're using them just like the players are to try and become more powerful)
4. A simple blacksmith should not be able to repair my "Sword of Godliness", in later acts have a powerful enchanter repair and sell magical items
5. IMO - Gambling is just a way to waste the overabundance of gold. Limit the gold and drop items that my character needs and I won't waste time gambling.
5A. If you're not gonna drop items I need then have a stash that I can use for all my character classes, not just one.
|||I forgot to say that I also love the idea of using gold to add/reset socket items. Also using gold to reset skill points or stats.
How to make gold relevant. - Page 4
[:1]Quote:
Seeing the currency is Perfect gems and then runes, what you must do is tie gold to these two currencies. So gamble for flawless gems and runes, then you have it. A million gold is some gems, or maybe a good rune, prolly only medium runes but at least some gems, it's your gamble.
This is a teriffic solution. I would love to see this happen. One other thing that ought to change is how you lose gold when you die. It feels terrible when it just dissappears out of your stash, but if you think about it, that's how much it costs to revive you, just like it costs loads to revive your merc. It's a penalty, but it shouldn't be automatically withdrawn. If this were just a patch to d2 I would say make the character into the hardcore death art when he dies, then make him pay to revive himself.|||I didn't know something was wrong with the Gold system, neither was it useless. You could gamble items, that is what your gold is good for.|||Quote:
I didn't know something was wrong with the Gold system, neither was it useless. You could gamble items, that is what your gold is good for.
The rarest items are the currency in D2Lod. NOT gold. As mentioned before gold has to be tied to runes and extremely rare items. It must be possible to get high runes for gold, high-end items for gold.
I like the gambling/crafting/rerolling options in D2Lod very much. It should be possible to get +3skillamus only by crafting/gambling. If +3 is too high then just the +2 amus/items by gambling/crafting. Tied to gold it will make gold the currency it should be.
Most important: If they make a WORLD event on D3, -tie it to gold and not to the soj or other rare items.|||Tying gold donation to a world event vs soj sales (or similar,) is brilliant! I vote for that one!!!|||I posted this in a different thread but I'll repost here.
Here is what I would do for gold in D3, to give it some value, but not supreme value. Gold should be useful, but you shouldn't be able to get everything with it.
Get rid of useless gold sinks:
1) Get rid of item durability/repairs (they're annoyances that disproportionately punish melee builds, and not conducive to fast-paced gameplay; ethereal items would need something else to counterbalance them)
2) Possibly find an alternative merc resurrect penalty
Reduce the supply of gold:
1) Reduce gold drop frequency
2) Rarify the %goldfind affix
3) Drastically Reduce selling prices of items (gold piles should be worth more than most white/blue items); also, uncap selling prices
Increase the demand for gold:
1) Improve the odds in gambling (not by too much; e.g. sets 1/500, uniques 1/1000)
2) Reduce the amount of high level items with useless magic affixes, and allow vendors to frequently sell viable "second-rate" gear at high but affordable gold prices
3) Allow unlimited inventory space in a shared account stash to be bought at a fixed rate (In D2 terms, around 50,000 - 100,000 gold per item slot)
4) Allow respeccing at an increasing gold-cost (in D2 terms, 25,000 gold for the first skillpoint or 5 stat points, with a 10% compounded cost for each additional 1 skill/ 5 stats, capped at around 1M gold; stats and skills would be separated for respec purposes, so respeccing a ton of stats wouldn't increase the costs of respeccing a skill, and vice versa).
5) Allow common cube ingredients to be bought for crafting purposes, such as pgems. This is really just a different version of gambling.
6) Allow items to be unsocketed (returning all the ingredients along with the item) for a decent price (in D2 terms, 50,000 gold for normal items, 100,000 gold for exceptional items, 150,000 gold for elite items). Runewords would have a higher cost to unsocket.
Other things this thread has prompted:
World event or something like it with randomized high chance for good items instead of guaranteed specific reward is a great gold-sink.
I say "no" to repairs because they disproportionately favor casters and punish meleers, who are already among the weakest. Plus they're just annoying. Kinda like stamina.
Death penalty should be related to player level and number of deaths with that character. No minimum cap either, so you could go into debt for deaths (no buying anything but scrolls, keys, and potions until you repay that debt).
You should not be able to get everything with gold. The best items should be drop-only. This is because gold-farming is much less exciting than item farming.
Status/customizations that have no influence on power are a good gold-sink as well (recoloring armor)
Paying to reroll (rare only?) items is another possibility.|||How to make gold relevant?
How many times have you seen this:
Armor. Defense: 150. Sell Value: 35000
Skin of the Vipermagi. Sell Value: 1500
How about making unique items actually worth something in gold? An Enigma should be a few million, not just 4000 or something like that...|||Because I didn't want to read 4 pages of ideas, I'm pitching mine with an apology if someone already stated it.
I think Blizzard needs to take a page out of the WoW gold system. And by this I mean a 3 or 4 tiered currency. Copper / Silver / Gold / Platinum with a ratio of 100:100:100:1
I hate dealing in terms of a million gold. GOLD IS HEAVY! LOL no one can carry that much.
Next, create an auction house where items can ONLY be sold / traded for currency. This will create a HUGE demand for the currency. Last, STOP TAKING MY GOLD WHEN I DIE!!! No one deals in gold in DII because they take so damn much after a death that was probably cause by the lag on their servers.
Just my opinion.|||Its easy.
they just need to increase the return-on-investment from gambling, and the vendors in hell should sell rare (rare as in yellow text) items that spawn with good mods.
maybe even let them sell runes and charms too.|||Enjoy most of the ideas...mainly the gold sinks. A decent idea for a gold sink would be a begger.
Begger asks for gold...you give begger gold...there is a 10% chance the begger will give you an item. The more you give the begger in one load the better the item might be. Although, gold does not collect over time.
So you can't give the begger 20,000 in one load and then give it like 500 several times in a row and expect an item worthy of the 20,000.
Sort of like gambling, but a bit more random. If you get an item on 500 gold you might get a sword with 1-3 fire damage added. If you get an item on 20,000 gold you have a shot of getting a powerful item. If you get an item on100,000 the item might be godly.
The chance of getting an item is so low that it won't undermine the characters finding powerful items in battle, but also if the character is given an item in return the character will at least get an item equal to what they paid for in gamble.
Also, to make it more likely for players to return...the item handed out is random. Sometimes it might be a ring, sometimes a helmet, sometimes, a sword, but it wouldn't give a character something that is class specific to another class. So witchdoctors aren't worrying about getting a barbarian specific item.|||Gold's is already relevant in the Diablo series...
The question to be asked is... "How to make gold important?"
One great way to increase gold's importance is by making it the main resource for getting your hands on potions. If potions were harder to find, then players would be forced to collect gold to ensure their survivability. Gold would be associated with things that the player cares about, rather than simply gambling for junk. Furthermore, making gold less available would also boost it's importance. Players would be forced to cherish every gold coin that they find since it is the best way to gain access to potions.
Gold should also be considered a limitless resource. In other words, the maximum amount of gold a player can keep in his/her stash should be so high that it is almost impossible to reach. If it were possible to remove the gold limit, then i would rather that be implemented. This doesnt require an immense amount of memory or graphical modification. So i think this is a feasible modification to D3.
These changes could potentially turn D3 gold into the currency of the game. I would rather gold be the new currency, which would replace Sojs and high level runes.
Thanks for reading... Gforce...
Seeing the currency is Perfect gems and then runes, what you must do is tie gold to these two currencies. So gamble for flawless gems and runes, then you have it. A million gold is some gems, or maybe a good rune, prolly only medium runes but at least some gems, it's your gamble.
This is a teriffic solution. I would love to see this happen. One other thing that ought to change is how you lose gold when you die. It feels terrible when it just dissappears out of your stash, but if you think about it, that's how much it costs to revive you, just like it costs loads to revive your merc. It's a penalty, but it shouldn't be automatically withdrawn. If this were just a patch to d2 I would say make the character into the hardcore death art when he dies, then make him pay to revive himself.|||I didn't know something was wrong with the Gold system, neither was it useless. You could gamble items, that is what your gold is good for.|||Quote:
I didn't know something was wrong with the Gold system, neither was it useless. You could gamble items, that is what your gold is good for.
The rarest items are the currency in D2Lod. NOT gold. As mentioned before gold has to be tied to runes and extremely rare items. It must be possible to get high runes for gold, high-end items for gold.
I like the gambling/crafting/rerolling options in D2Lod very much. It should be possible to get +3skillamus only by crafting/gambling. If +3 is too high then just the +2 amus/items by gambling/crafting. Tied to gold it will make gold the currency it should be.
Most important: If they make a WORLD event on D3, -tie it to gold and not to the soj or other rare items.|||Tying gold donation to a world event vs soj sales (or similar,) is brilliant! I vote for that one!!!|||I posted this in a different thread but I'll repost here.
Here is what I would do for gold in D3, to give it some value, but not supreme value. Gold should be useful, but you shouldn't be able to get everything with it.
Get rid of useless gold sinks:
1) Get rid of item durability/repairs (they're annoyances that disproportionately punish melee builds, and not conducive to fast-paced gameplay; ethereal items would need something else to counterbalance them)
2) Possibly find an alternative merc resurrect penalty
Reduce the supply of gold:
1) Reduce gold drop frequency
2) Rarify the %goldfind affix
3) Drastically Reduce selling prices of items (gold piles should be worth more than most white/blue items); also, uncap selling prices
Increase the demand for gold:
1) Improve the odds in gambling (not by too much; e.g. sets 1/500, uniques 1/1000)
2) Reduce the amount of high level items with useless magic affixes, and allow vendors to frequently sell viable "second-rate" gear at high but affordable gold prices
3) Allow unlimited inventory space in a shared account stash to be bought at a fixed rate (In D2 terms, around 50,000 - 100,000 gold per item slot)
4) Allow respeccing at an increasing gold-cost (in D2 terms, 25,000 gold for the first skillpoint or 5 stat points, with a 10% compounded cost for each additional 1 skill/ 5 stats, capped at around 1M gold; stats and skills would be separated for respec purposes, so respeccing a ton of stats wouldn't increase the costs of respeccing a skill, and vice versa).
5) Allow common cube ingredients to be bought for crafting purposes, such as pgems. This is really just a different version of gambling.
6) Allow items to be unsocketed (returning all the ingredients along with the item) for a decent price (in D2 terms, 50,000 gold for normal items, 100,000 gold for exceptional items, 150,000 gold for elite items). Runewords would have a higher cost to unsocket.
Other things this thread has prompted:
World event or something like it with randomized high chance for good items instead of guaranteed specific reward is a great gold-sink.
I say "no" to repairs because they disproportionately favor casters and punish meleers, who are already among the weakest. Plus they're just annoying. Kinda like stamina.
Death penalty should be related to player level and number of deaths with that character. No minimum cap either, so you could go into debt for deaths (no buying anything but scrolls, keys, and potions until you repay that debt).
You should not be able to get everything with gold. The best items should be drop-only. This is because gold-farming is much less exciting than item farming.
Status/customizations that have no influence on power are a good gold-sink as well (recoloring armor)
Paying to reroll (rare only?) items is another possibility.|||How to make gold relevant?
How many times have you seen this:
Armor. Defense: 150. Sell Value: 35000
Skin of the Vipermagi. Sell Value: 1500
How about making unique items actually worth something in gold? An Enigma should be a few million, not just 4000 or something like that...|||Because I didn't want to read 4 pages of ideas, I'm pitching mine with an apology if someone already stated it.
I think Blizzard needs to take a page out of the WoW gold system. And by this I mean a 3 or 4 tiered currency. Copper / Silver / Gold / Platinum with a ratio of 100:100:100:1
I hate dealing in terms of a million gold. GOLD IS HEAVY! LOL no one can carry that much.
Next, create an auction house where items can ONLY be sold / traded for currency. This will create a HUGE demand for the currency. Last, STOP TAKING MY GOLD WHEN I DIE!!! No one deals in gold in DII because they take so damn much after a death that was probably cause by the lag on their servers.
Just my opinion.|||Its easy.
they just need to increase the return-on-investment from gambling, and the vendors in hell should sell rare (rare as in yellow text) items that spawn with good mods.
maybe even let them sell runes and charms too.|||Enjoy most of the ideas...mainly the gold sinks. A decent idea for a gold sink would be a begger.
Begger asks for gold...you give begger gold...there is a 10% chance the begger will give you an item. The more you give the begger in one load the better the item might be. Although, gold does not collect over time.
So you can't give the begger 20,000 in one load and then give it like 500 several times in a row and expect an item worthy of the 20,000.
Sort of like gambling, but a bit more random. If you get an item on 500 gold you might get a sword with 1-3 fire damage added. If you get an item on 20,000 gold you have a shot of getting a powerful item. If you get an item on100,000 the item might be godly.
The chance of getting an item is so low that it won't undermine the characters finding powerful items in battle, but also if the character is given an item in return the character will at least get an item equal to what they paid for in gamble.
Also, to make it more likely for players to return...the item handed out is random. Sometimes it might be a ring, sometimes a helmet, sometimes, a sword, but it wouldn't give a character something that is class specific to another class. So witchdoctors aren't worrying about getting a barbarian specific item.|||Gold's is already relevant in the Diablo series...
The question to be asked is... "How to make gold important?"
One great way to increase gold's importance is by making it the main resource for getting your hands on potions. If potions were harder to find, then players would be forced to collect gold to ensure their survivability. Gold would be associated with things that the player cares about, rather than simply gambling for junk. Furthermore, making gold less available would also boost it's importance. Players would be forced to cherish every gold coin that they find since it is the best way to gain access to potions.
Gold should also be considered a limitless resource. In other words, the maximum amount of gold a player can keep in his/her stash should be so high that it is almost impossible to reach. If it were possible to remove the gold limit, then i would rather that be implemented. This doesnt require an immense amount of memory or graphical modification. So i think this is a feasible modification to D3.
These changes could potentially turn D3 gold into the currency of the game. I would rather gold be the new currency, which would replace Sojs and high level runes.
Thanks for reading... Gforce...
How to make gold relevant. - Page 3
[:1]PLEASE, nothing from WoW. PLEASE.
The mention of a Witch Doctor is already too much for me! No more Warcraft! No AH, or creepy things like that! Do not make gold hard to get, repairing shouldn't be any trouble for a wild men slaying everything that's evil in sight, can you imagin that poor triumphant Barb going back to his base but Charsi felt like ripping him off for some reason? Come on. We don't need currency! Farming gold is just too much... MMORPG!|||Quote:
PLEASE, nothing from WoW. PLEASE.
The mention of a Witch Doctor is already too much for me! No more Warcraft! No AH, or creepy things like that! Do not make gold hard to get, repairing shouldn't be any trouble for a wild men slaying everything that's evil in sight, can you imagin that poor triumphant Barb going back to his base but Charsi felt like ripping him off for some reason? Come on. We don't need currency! Farming gold is just too much... MMORPG!
As simple and straightforward as it is, Diablo is an MMORPG. WoW had MANY elements from D2 in it, so expect some to carry over into D3. The point of this thread is discussing ways to make gold relevant in D3, aside from repairing and rezzing a merc.
What's the difference between farming for gold, and farming for items? Gold would be something universal, instead of having to farm for specific things to trade, and it would make it quite a bit easier to acquire items, and track what things are worth.|||I personally would love the idea to be able to buy from vendors items that are worth my gold. All that gold stacking up for me its useless, i've maxed stash and inventory on all my characters and it just sits there...|||Quote:
I personally would love the idea to be able to buy from vendors items that are worth my gold. All that gold stacking up for me its useless, i've maxed stash and inventory on all my characters and it just sits there...
Yep. The items need to be very expensive. Basically, if you want to keep up with merchant items, you are constantly broke and/or can't afford one of the new items. And the higher you get, the more expensive are the items. But those items should not be super powerful items, that ruins the item drop game. They just must be useful for you or your merc.|||Quote:
Yep. The items need to be very expensive. Basically, if you want to keep up with merchant items, you are constantly broke and/or can't afford one of the new items. And the higher you get, the more expensive are the items. But those items should not be super powerful items, that ruins the item drop game. They just must be useful for you or your merc.
Yea. To take from the d2 rarity system, at least they should sell some exceptional uniques and not the elite ones. Anyway something of that sort that can actually help you in the game if you have the worst luck in finding good gear|||To make gold useful: 2 words: free markets!
in detail:
1. do not take so much away when you die (maybe even none)
2. eliminate limits to how much gold you can have or transfer
3. initiate gold sinks: Gambling, Inventory slots, crafting ingredients, full rejuvs, customizations, etc (curbs inflation). Most of these must have a moderately high price relative to gold/time that a new player can expect to earn in order to impart value to the currency.
4. have an auction house, or at least an auction website - this will impart global (or at least regional) market prices to items.
5. revalue sale of items to vendors correctly... uniques and sets should give you a high % of last auction sale, with no cap, while trashy +skills staffs shouldn't pay out so much.
the one thing that will prevent this from becoming WoW is the speed at which you can earn gold and buy items and services. Instead of weeks for an epic mount, prices should be adjusted so that things like crafting ingredients for low level items and the first couple extra inventory slots can be purchased almost immediately. ALSO, the main source of gold for higher level things (your 50th extra slot, elite crafting ingredients) should come from resale of valuable items, NOT gold dropping by itself. Let blizzard figure out what a good balance is.
Now, the question is, how do you prevent goldfarming and duping?|||How about tying together purchased mods, gambling, and repairs? For example have a weapon's performance (damage, speed, etc) dependent on how well kept (repaired) it is. Allow a player different options for how often to repair and how much to spend on each repair. Regular upkeep with no expenses spared gives a chance (gamble) of getting a special mod. Require continued high cost repairs to keep any uber mods. Perhaps make the best mods all require charges and a high cost to recharge.|||Quote:
5) Make gold one of the requirements for unlocking D3's version of "Uber Tristram". Not the only req, but maybe one of three. One is random drops, one is a character level, the third is a massive donation.
I recall something in a game...I think it was Fable...where you would drop a certain quota amount of gold into a well and get to fight some crazy monster that dropped something really good.
I'm thinking they should have something similiar to this, but the level of monster that spawns would be relative to the amount of gold you donate. And the monsters which comes out of this "portal", whatever it may be, will have a greater chance of dropping G0dL33z than your typical "Geleb Flamefinger" or what have you. Of course the more gold you donate=higher level monster=higher level possible drops.
For the Diablo world it definetly shouldn't be so black-and-white as gold+well=monster for no reason, but you get the idea.|||The reason Gold was worthless in D2 was because it only had 2 real uses: repairing, and gambling. But the returns on gambling weren't very good, which resulted in lack of care for gold.
If they want to make gold useful they need to curb the dropping of it some, first, Second, they need to make the items you can buy from vendors better, meaning there should be more balance between rares and magic items. Third, they need more varied ways to spend money, so that people will have to make choices of what to do with their gold.
Quote:
To make gold useful: 2 words: free markets!
in detail:
1. do not take so much away when you die (maybe even none)
2. eliminate limits to how much gold you can have or transfer
3. initiate gold sinks: Gambling, Inventory slots, crafting ingredients, full rejuvs, customizations, etc (curbs inflation). Most of these must have a moderately high price relative to gold/time that a new player can expect to earn in order to impart value to the currency.
4. have an auction house, or at least an auction website - this will impart global (or at least regional) market prices to items.
5. revalue sale of items to vendors correctly... uniques and sets should give you a high % of last auction sale, with no cap, while trashy +skills staffs shouldn't pay out so much.
I just wanted to point out that your #1 isnt in line with #3... Loss of gold as a death penalty is a very important gold sink. In wow you lose gold, for example too in the form of durability loss on your gear.
Quote:
Now, the question is, how do you prevent goldfarming and duping?
Well, one way would be to have some sort of human authentication in D3 when you make games. Similar to typing in the random numbers/letters when you join a web forum. That would stop the rampant botting at least, not the chinese goldfarming though.
Duping should really be stopped by Blizz. They have a lot more bandwidth than they did 10 years ago, which gives them more headroom to stop duping.|||Quote:
How about tying together purchased mods, gambling, and repairs? For example have a weapon's performance (damage, speed, etc) dependent on how well kept (repaired) it is. Allow a player different options for how often to repair and how much to spend on each repair. Regular upkeep with no expenses spared gives a chance (gamble) of getting a special mod. Require continued high cost repairs to keep any uber mods. Perhaps make the best mods all require charges and a high cost to recharge.
Problem with this is it would encourage people to stop fighting and go back to town to repair. If the longer you're out the less effective you become, town portals will become the number one item bought in the game.
I like the idea of higher quality items being sold by vendors. Make it rare, like a unique will show up as a special offer once every 1000 trips to the vendor (maybe even tie it into time played, so you can't just keep leaving town and coming back to refresh the wares). Make the price extremely high, several millions. It would give people a reason to go back and at least check on the vendors to see what kind of fun stuff is there.
Or the simpler answer, make it possible to gamble uniques and sets again.
The mention of a Witch Doctor is already too much for me! No more Warcraft! No AH, or creepy things like that! Do not make gold hard to get, repairing shouldn't be any trouble for a wild men slaying everything that's evil in sight, can you imagin that poor triumphant Barb going back to his base but Charsi felt like ripping him off for some reason? Come on. We don't need currency! Farming gold is just too much... MMORPG!|||Quote:
PLEASE, nothing from WoW. PLEASE.
The mention of a Witch Doctor is already too much for me! No more Warcraft! No AH, or creepy things like that! Do not make gold hard to get, repairing shouldn't be any trouble for a wild men slaying everything that's evil in sight, can you imagin that poor triumphant Barb going back to his base but Charsi felt like ripping him off for some reason? Come on. We don't need currency! Farming gold is just too much... MMORPG!
As simple and straightforward as it is, Diablo is an MMORPG. WoW had MANY elements from D2 in it, so expect some to carry over into D3. The point of this thread is discussing ways to make gold relevant in D3, aside from repairing and rezzing a merc.
What's the difference between farming for gold, and farming for items? Gold would be something universal, instead of having to farm for specific things to trade, and it would make it quite a bit easier to acquire items, and track what things are worth.|||I personally would love the idea to be able to buy from vendors items that are worth my gold. All that gold stacking up for me its useless, i've maxed stash and inventory on all my characters and it just sits there...|||Quote:
I personally would love the idea to be able to buy from vendors items that are worth my gold. All that gold stacking up for me its useless, i've maxed stash and inventory on all my characters and it just sits there...
Yep. The items need to be very expensive. Basically, if you want to keep up with merchant items, you are constantly broke and/or can't afford one of the new items. And the higher you get, the more expensive are the items. But those items should not be super powerful items, that ruins the item drop game. They just must be useful for you or your merc.|||Quote:
Yep. The items need to be very expensive. Basically, if you want to keep up with merchant items, you are constantly broke and/or can't afford one of the new items. And the higher you get, the more expensive are the items. But those items should not be super powerful items, that ruins the item drop game. They just must be useful for you or your merc.
Yea. To take from the d2 rarity system, at least they should sell some exceptional uniques and not the elite ones. Anyway something of that sort that can actually help you in the game if you have the worst luck in finding good gear|||To make gold useful: 2 words: free markets!
in detail:
1. do not take so much away when you die (maybe even none)
2. eliminate limits to how much gold you can have or transfer
3. initiate gold sinks: Gambling, Inventory slots, crafting ingredients, full rejuvs, customizations, etc (curbs inflation). Most of these must have a moderately high price relative to gold/time that a new player can expect to earn in order to impart value to the currency.
4. have an auction house, or at least an auction website - this will impart global (or at least regional) market prices to items.
5. revalue sale of items to vendors correctly... uniques and sets should give you a high % of last auction sale, with no cap, while trashy +skills staffs shouldn't pay out so much.
the one thing that will prevent this from becoming WoW is the speed at which you can earn gold and buy items and services. Instead of weeks for an epic mount, prices should be adjusted so that things like crafting ingredients for low level items and the first couple extra inventory slots can be purchased almost immediately. ALSO, the main source of gold for higher level things (your 50th extra slot, elite crafting ingredients) should come from resale of valuable items, NOT gold dropping by itself. Let blizzard figure out what a good balance is.
Now, the question is, how do you prevent goldfarming and duping?|||How about tying together purchased mods, gambling, and repairs? For example have a weapon's performance (damage, speed, etc) dependent on how well kept (repaired) it is. Allow a player different options for how often to repair and how much to spend on each repair. Regular upkeep with no expenses spared gives a chance (gamble) of getting a special mod. Require continued high cost repairs to keep any uber mods. Perhaps make the best mods all require charges and a high cost to recharge.|||Quote:
5) Make gold one of the requirements for unlocking D3's version of "Uber Tristram". Not the only req, but maybe one of three. One is random drops, one is a character level, the third is a massive donation.
I recall something in a game...I think it was Fable...where you would drop a certain quota amount of gold into a well and get to fight some crazy monster that dropped something really good.
I'm thinking they should have something similiar to this, but the level of monster that spawns would be relative to the amount of gold you donate. And the monsters which comes out of this "portal", whatever it may be, will have a greater chance of dropping G0dL33z than your typical "Geleb Flamefinger" or what have you. Of course the more gold you donate=higher level monster=higher level possible drops.
For the Diablo world it definetly shouldn't be so black-and-white as gold+well=monster for no reason, but you get the idea.|||The reason Gold was worthless in D2 was because it only had 2 real uses: repairing, and gambling. But the returns on gambling weren't very good, which resulted in lack of care for gold.
If they want to make gold useful they need to curb the dropping of it some, first, Second, they need to make the items you can buy from vendors better, meaning there should be more balance between rares and magic items. Third, they need more varied ways to spend money, so that people will have to make choices of what to do with their gold.
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To make gold useful: 2 words: free markets!
in detail:
1. do not take so much away when you die (maybe even none)
2. eliminate limits to how much gold you can have or transfer
3. initiate gold sinks: Gambling, Inventory slots, crafting ingredients, full rejuvs, customizations, etc (curbs inflation). Most of these must have a moderately high price relative to gold/time that a new player can expect to earn in order to impart value to the currency.
4. have an auction house, or at least an auction website - this will impart global (or at least regional) market prices to items.
5. revalue sale of items to vendors correctly... uniques and sets should give you a high % of last auction sale, with no cap, while trashy +skills staffs shouldn't pay out so much.
I just wanted to point out that your #1 isnt in line with #3... Loss of gold as a death penalty is a very important gold sink. In wow you lose gold, for example too in the form of durability loss on your gear.
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Now, the question is, how do you prevent goldfarming and duping?
Well, one way would be to have some sort of human authentication in D3 when you make games. Similar to typing in the random numbers/letters when you join a web forum. That would stop the rampant botting at least, not the chinese goldfarming though.
Duping should really be stopped by Blizz. They have a lot more bandwidth than they did 10 years ago, which gives them more headroom to stop duping.|||Quote:
How about tying together purchased mods, gambling, and repairs? For example have a weapon's performance (damage, speed, etc) dependent on how well kept (repaired) it is. Allow a player different options for how often to repair and how much to spend on each repair. Regular upkeep with no expenses spared gives a chance (gamble) of getting a special mod. Require continued high cost repairs to keep any uber mods. Perhaps make the best mods all require charges and a high cost to recharge.
Problem with this is it would encourage people to stop fighting and go back to town to repair. If the longer you're out the less effective you become, town portals will become the number one item bought in the game.
I like the idea of higher quality items being sold by vendors. Make it rare, like a unique will show up as a special offer once every 1000 trips to the vendor (maybe even tie it into time played, so you can't just keep leaving town and coming back to refresh the wares). Make the price extremely high, several millions. It would give people a reason to go back and at least check on the vendors to see what kind of fun stuff is there.
Or the simpler answer, make it possible to gamble uniques and sets again.
How to make gold relevant. - Page 2
[:1]Have more items at vendors worth buying,items that dont drop.|||LONG POST AHOY
Ways to make gold relevant (AND OTHER RANDOM IDEAS):
1. Do what they did in WoW. Gold is relevant in WoW but not in D2, so they should follow WoW's example here.
2. Make sure there are a lot of mandatory day-to-day costs of adventuring. Between potions (if they are making it back), armor/weapon repair, tp/id scrolls, spell components etc., players should spend most of their money on upkeep after a battle.
Addition of spell components should also make the less item dependent classes like the sorc and necro more in line with the poor melee classes
3a. Make all items wear out each time they're repaired (like the warrior's skill in D1) so characters need to continually be repairing weapons and armor, and looking for replacements. This continual decay will keep players' money cycling back into the economy, instead of letting them build up huge amounts of money.
3b. Make players pay a large sum of money to prevent item decay; perhaps through an enchanter in town who prevents your items from losing durability for a temporary period. So high level characters can keep their stuff forever as long as they keep spending the money to enchant it with temporary indestructibility. This enchanter would charge a % of the cost of the item to enchant it, so high level items cost more to save; therefore higher level players will shell out more money to keep their gear. Maybe lower level players will constantly cycle through gear. But once you get your endgame stuff and have a lot of money, you will be forced to spend a lot of your money on this durability enchantment if you wanna keep this endgame set of gear.
4. Make gold hard to get. Like mouseman said, there's no reason for most of these monsters to be dropping gold, let alone as much as they do.
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4) Restrict the way you get gold. You could get gold only from chests, humanoid monsters, rewards from quests and so on. Why (or how!) maggots carry on gold, anyway?
Also reduce the amount of gold players get from selling items back to vendors. Why would Charsi want a low quality club of worthlessness? Or even a regular voulge? In a world where everything of use is highly enchanted anyway, it makes no sense that vendors should pay you even a dime for the cr-appy quality stuff you haul back from the dungeons. Anything you find that the vendors would want should be so good that you wanna use it yourself.
Also creatures can drop only items they could concievably be carrying or hoarding. So like skeleton captains drop those shields they carry and a low quality sword. Fallen drop little tiny daggers and tiny shields. Zombies and most animals drop nothing (except spell components). Gold and good items will come off of humanoid monsters and uniques. So if you fight a goatman archer with flaming arrows, if you kill him you get his flaming crossbow of fire. Or if you kill a monster guarding a hoard of items, you get all the items he was collecting (dragons like to collect phat lewts, so no reason other monsters might not want to). But it makes no sense to have a quill rat carrying around a voulge, and it makes items drop too frequently, which helps the economy get out of control.
This system of sparse drops might seem to make stuff you find worthless, and they probably won't sell for too much, but combined with the item decay from earlier, you probably will need a lot of the stuff that drops, since your armor and weapons will be breaking a lot. Maybe fallen drops won't be useful to you, since their items are so small, but killing goatmen or other humanoid demons should net some weapons and armor you can use in a pinch.
So under this system most of your good drops come from bosses (who will use the enchanted weapons against you) or be bought in town or crafted. Not much different from current D2, just removing a lot of the senseless junky drops that just fill up the screen. When you see a drop under this system, it should generally be good, and you'll know its coming, since you beat a hard *** boss to get it.
5. Make enchanter NPCs/or an enchanter class that can imbue like Charsi, so we increase the flow of magical items in the game (since many of my changes reduce it) while decreasing gold players have. So players can still have all the 1337 stuff they're used to from D2, but it'll cost them money from town; instead of being free (stolen from monsters).
tl;dr: make items decay, sell for less, and drop less often|||Quote:
1. Do what they did in WoW. Gold is relevant in WoW but not in D2, so they should follow WoW's example here.
What do you mean by emulating WoW? WoW's main money drain is mounts, and I'd hate to see those carry over into Diablo. If you're talking about how the Auction House economy revolves around gold .. I think DII's system of bartering is a little more "Diabloesque." It works for WoW, but I'd rather not be able to find gear for my character by simply typing in the name of something in the Search Bar and clicking "Bid!"
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2. Make sure there are a lot of mandatory day-to-day costs of adventuring. Between potions (if they are making it back), armor/weapon repair, tp/id scrolls, spell components etc., players should spend most of their money on upkeep after a battle.
Addition of spell components should also make the less item dependent classes like the sorc and necro more in line with the poor melee classes
3a. Make all items wear out each time they're repaired (like the warrior's skill in D1) so characters need to continually be repairing weapons and armor, and looking for replacements. This continual decay will keep players' money cycling back into the economy, instead of letting them build up huge amounts of money.
3b. Make players pay a large sum of money to prevent item decay; perhaps through an enchanter in town who prevents your items from losing durability for a temporary period. So high level characters can keep their stuff forever as long as they keep spending the money to enchant it with temporary indestructibility. This enchanter would charge a % of the cost of the item to enchant it, so high level items cost more to save; therefore higher level players will shell out more money to keep their gear. Maybe lower level players will constantly cycle through gear. But once you get your endgame stuff and have a lot of money, you will be forced to spend a lot of your money on this durability enchantment if you wanna keep this endgame set of gear.
I'd prefer spending as little time as possible having to worry about whether or not my gear is going to crumble apart. I'm a frickin' beast on the battle-field, wielding magical weapons of immense power .. Constantly watching my weapons and armor degrade detracts from that sense of strength.
I used to play a game called Gemstone III, and at one point, the developers introduced "weapon breakage." This system made it so weapons had a chance to break or be damaged if they made contact against a stronger metal than itself .. Cool idea that made for terrible gameplay. They opted to remove the breakage system post-haste.
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4. Make gold hard to get. Like mouseman said, there's no reason for most of these monsters to be dropping gold, let alone as much as they do.
Also reduce the amount of gold players get from selling items back to vendors. Why would Charsi want a low quality club of worthlessness? Or even a regular voulge? In a world where everything of use is highly enchanted anyway, it makes no sense that vendors should pay you even a dime for the cr-appy quality stuff you haul back from the dungeons. Anything you find that the vendors would want should be so good that you wanna use it yourself.
Also creatures can drop only items they could concievably be carrying or hoarding. So like skeleton captains drop those shields they carry and a low quality sword. Fallen drop little tiny daggers and tiny shields. Zombies and most animals drop nothing (except spell components). Gold and good items will come off of humanoid monsters and uniques. So if you fight a goatman archer with flaming arrows, if you kill him you get his flaming crossbow of fire. Or if you kill a monster guarding a hoard of items, you get all the items he was collecting (dragons like to collect phat lewts, so no reason other monsters might not want to). But it makes no sense to have a quill rat carrying around a voulge, and it makes items drop too frequently, which helps the economy get out of control.
This system of sparse drops might seem to make stuff you find worthless, and they probably won't sell for too much, but combined with the item decay from earlier, you probably will need a lot of the stuff that drops, since your armor and weapons will be breaking a lot. Maybe fallen drops won't be useful to you, since their items are so small, but killing goatmen or other humanoid demons should net some weapons and armor you can use in a pinch.
So under this system most of your good drops come from bosses (who will use the enchanted weapons against you) or be bought in town or crafted. Not much different from current D2, just removing a lot of the senseless junky drops that just fill up the screen. When you see a drop under this system, it should generally be good, and you'll know its coming, since you beat a hard *** boss to get it.
I agree that gold should be harder to come by. However, I disagree that junk items should be absolutely worthless at the vendor. I'd much rather them regulate the prices of certain overly-valuable items, such as wands and staves. Items with +skills always sell for an inordinate amount of gold, even if the item is a "cracked yew wand." I'd definitely be in favor of lowering the sell-prices of those few items, so if you want to make some extra gold by scavenging the field, everything's fair game .. not just a handful of things that don't necessarily make much sense.
I think it'd be a terrible mechanic to make monsters only drop what they logically should be able to drop. Realism can only go so far .. item-hunters would bypass or blow by huge areas of the game if they were full of monsters that didn't drop anything they needed. What point would there be for a Barbarian killing floors full of skeleton archers if the Barbarian doesn't need anything bow-related, for example? A few specific quotes of yours:
"This system of sparse drops might seem to make stuff you find worthless, and they probably won't sell for too much, but combined with the item decay from earlier, you probably will need a lot of the stuff that drops, since your armor and weapons will be breaking a lot."
Bottom-line here: Does that seem like a fun mechanic? "A lot of that stuff seems like worthless crap, but because your items are going to be constantly disintegrating, you'll need that crap!" Your suggestion here destroys almost all motivation for killing monsters in DII.
"So under this system most of your good drops come from bosses (who will use the enchanted weapons against you)"
We already have a problem with the frequency that bosses are killed for their loot. This is just another reason for people to farm bosses and avoid other content.
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5. Make enchanter NPCs/or an enchanter class that can imbue like Charsi, so we increase the flow of magical items in the game (since many of my changes reduce it) while decreasing gold players have. So players can still have all the 1337 stuff they're used to from D2, but it'll cost them money from town; instead of being free (stolen from monsters).
How is this an improvement? I think anyone would rather have the exhilarating rush of finding an item drop on the battle-field, opposed to...buying it at a vendor.
I don't mean to tear into your ideas, because a lot of them are great and make a lot of sense on paper. None of them, however, seem at all fun to me, and I think that should be the utmost consideration here.|||I agree with everything kaeros said, and disagree with almost everything voraginous said, with the exception of the concept of removing junky item drops.
However, the idea of tying it into a system of item decay is definitely the wrong way to go about eliminating junk drops imo.|||I like where gold is in D2 right now in many respects, all I'd like to see done directly to gold more user friendly is:
making it possible to store about 100x as much as you can currently (replace 1 mill gold with 1 platinum or whatever to make it easier to read amounts);
not lose cash in the stash on death; and
no limit on how much gold you can trade at once.
Gambling, the current use of gold other than minor irritations such as repairing stuff (I don't think that should go, if only because I really like the current ethereal property, OP as it is) is very worthwhile both for the high level player and the untwinked player, especially in classic. It should be speeded up tho, with a system along the lines of ctrl+clicking an item offered fills your inventory with items of that type assuming, gold allowing. Gambling and gfing is a very viable alternative to mfing in D2, especially pre 1.10 crafting. Buying gold to gamble on a high level char has better returns, at least excluding time taken to gamble/trade, vs buying pgems to roll gcs imo.
Butfor gold to play a major part in D3 (which I don't necessarily like) it simply has to have one single significent use that's seperate. Respeccing could be an appropriate gold sink, though whether/to what extent respeccing should be included in D3 is another topic in itself. In D2c it's pretty much the only way to get +2 amus (1 enemy also drops them, Diablo), which could have made gold in D2c a viable alternative currency (it is traded more often than in d2x but only for basics such as shard), if not for the trading and carrying restrictions and unecessary risk of carrying around larger amounts in SC. GF mod should be toned down if gold is given a significent new use.|||The difference between WoW's economy being gold based, and Diablo's economy being Barter based is a result of two things.
Lack of Gold in WoW, and an abundance of gold in Diablo. There's so much gold flying around in D2, that its not worth anything.
WoW's Soulbound system. In Diablo you can trade hand-me-downs. You can trade BoE items in WoW, but once you use them, they're no longer worth anything but the shard or vendor cost you get.
To make gold relevant in D3, there needs to either be some sort of limit on each. Either limit the item availability, or the gold availability. I think Diablo will always be on the bater end of trading, but with a little tweaking, it could move more towards the center.
-edit-
Another thought would be to use a copper -> silver -> gold -> Platinum system to condense things. I suppose if WoW used only gold, without the condensed increments, things might be different. Would it be easier to keep track of 100g in WoW's current system, or 1,000,000 copper?|||Quote:
What do you mean by emulating WoW? WoW's main money drain is mounts, and I'd hate to see those carry over into Diablo. If you're talking about how the Auction House economy revolves around gold .. I think DII's system of bartering is a little more "Diabloesque." It works for WoW, but I'd rather not be able to find gear for my character by simply typing in the name of something in the Search Bar and clicking "Bid!"
Neither. I don't think mounts or auction houses should carry over into Diablo.
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I'd prefer spending as little time as possible having to worry about whether or not my gear is going to crumble apart. I'm a frickin' beast on the battle-field, wielding magical weapons of immense power .. Constantly watching my weapons and armor degrade detracts from that sense of strength.
Well you wouldn't have to spend time worrying about it, just like you don't spend time worrying about repairs now. You just click a button and it's taken care of. Right next to the repair button you have a "durability enchant" button and a "durability enchant all" button which you use periodically to stop decay. This is purely a gold sink for higher level players who are on their final end game set of items, not an upkeep cost lower levels really need to worry about. But I can see how it doesn't fit the frenetic pace of the game. It's more of a roguelike type mechanic, where you have to worry about hunger and such.. it's more of a nethack of diablo 1 mechanic than a diablo 2 or 3 mechanic
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I used to play a game called Gemstone III, and at one point, the developers introduced "weapon breakage." This system made it so weapons had a chance to break or be damaged if they made contact against a stronger metal than itself .. Cool idea that made for terrible gameplay. They opted to remove the breakage system post-haste.
Well weapons wouldn't break instantly, but over time you would have to either a) replace your gear with new gear or b) pay large amounts of money to keep your gear from decaying.
It's a goldsink, nothing more. Functionally it's the same as increasing repair costs to a large % of the items's value to prevent too much gold building up. In fact, I think that would be a better system, since it uses what we have in Diablo 2 and simply changes some of the background numbers a bit.
Reading your arguments makes me realize that a decay mechanic can be replaced by a slightly retooled repair mechanic instead; with no need for using crappy items. It makes some sense: your nuclear broadsword of destruction can't be sharpened with a normal whetstone, it needs a nuclear enchanted whetstone and an enchanted lead scabbard and trace amounts of phoenix feathers and so on and so forth. So the bigger the item, the higher the repair costs.
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I agree that gold should be harder to come by. However, I disagree that junk items should be absolutely worthless at the vendor. I'd much rather them regulate the prices of certain overly-valuable items, such as wands and staves. Items with +skills always sell for an inordinate amount of gold, even if the item is a "cracked yew wand." I'd definitely be in favor of lowering the sell-prices of those few items, so if you want to make some extra gold by scavenging the field, everything's fair game .. not just a handful of things that don't necessarily make much sense.
This makes sense, though I do like the idea of being able to tell what will and won't sell at a glance. Hrmm.. I think I'd prefer if less junk dropped in the first place. Not sure though.
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I think it'd be a terrible mechanic to make monsters only drop what they logically should be able to drop. Realism can only go so far .. item-hunters would bypass or blow by huge areas of the game if they were full of monsters that didn't drop anything they needed. What point would there be for a Barbarian killing floors full of skeleton archers if the Barbarian doesn't need anything bow-related, for example? A few specific quotes of yours:
"This system of sparse drops might seem to make stuff you find worthless, and they probably won't sell for too much, but combined with the item decay from earlier, you probably will need a lot of the stuff that drops, since your armor and weapons will be breaking a lot."
Bottom-line here: Does that seem like a fun mechanic? "A lot of that stuff seems like worthless crap, but because your items are going to be constantly disintegrating, you'll need that crap!" Your suggestion here destroys almost all motivation for killing monsters in DII.
"So under this system most of your good drops come from bosses (who will use the enchanted weapons against you)"
We already have a problem with the frequency that bosses are killed for their loot. This is just another reason for people to farm bosses and avoid other content.
Well I'm thinking champions and uniques that spawn on the map or in adventures, not bosses like Diablo Baal or Andy. You wouldn't do runs to get gear, you'd go out into the world and kill uniques where you ran into them. In fact there might be less boss running since you'd often simply be targeting uniques and their packs. It'd be a lot closer to today's system than I think you're envisioning except that a lot of the crap drops would be standardized. So fallen always drop crappy daggers and bucklers instead of dropping crappy voulges or spears.
But as far as crappy drops you're right. I think it's cooler to have more people running around with hugely magical weapons (and it fits Blizz's philosophy) rather than having 99.99% of people be mundane.
Anyway I thought it was a cool idea, but after looking at it again the current system is probably a lot more fun--though I still think my ideas could work.
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How is this an improvement? I think anyone would rather have the exhilarating rush of finding an item drop on the battle-field, opposed to...buying it at a vendor.
I agree with this too. Vending is less fun than questing probably. I don't know what I was thinking here :P
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I don't mean to tear into your ideas, because a lot of them are great and make a lot of sense on paper. None of them, however, seem at all fun to me, and I think that should be the utmost consideration here.
No most of your points are spot on. I think you misunderstood me in some placed, but many of my ideas weren't well formed and you attacked those with some efficiency.
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The difference between WoW's economy being gold based, and Diablo's economy being Barter based is a result of two things.
Lack of Gold in WoW, and an abundance of gold in Diablo. There's so much gold flying around in D2, that its not worth anything.
WoW's Soulbound system. In Diablo you can trade hand-me-downs. You can trade BoE items in WoW, but once you use them, they're no longer worth anything but the shard or vendor cost you get.
To make gold relevant in D3, there needs to either be some sort of limit on each. Either limit the item availability, or the gold availability. I think Diablo will always be on the bater end of trading, but with a little tweaking, it could move more towards the center.
-edit-
Another thought would be to use a copper -> silver -> gold -> Platinum system to condense things. I suppose if WoW used only gold, without the condensed increments, things might be different. Would it be easier to keep track of 100g in WoW's current system, or 1,000,000 copper?
I think you hit the nail on the head with your reasons that WoW has a controlled economy. But IMO the BoE mechanic doesn't fit Diablo (neither do mounts) so we're stuck with limiting the availability of gold by making it very scarce. The problem with this is no matter how scarce you make gold, people will have a lot of it without gold sinks.
I don't think the copper/silver/gold system is even needed if the amounts of gold are controlled enough, but I suppose it's OK.
Also important are controlling hacking and macros.|||Decrease need to repair (Nobody likes to run to the town every 5 minutes) but increase repaircost.
Death costs money, like D2.
Gambling.
Respeccing. Cost increases exponentially with a max and decreases slowly over time.
Buyable buffs. Costly, thus only real use if a boss is too tough ATM. (Lineage 2
)|||A few ideas, some have been mentioned:
1) Be able to gamble on ANYTHING. You can gamble on rings, even though those are magic at minimum, why not gamble on charms? Just make it so that most come out as +1 to light radius, or similarly useless mods, and make the price HIGH.
2) I like the idea of purchasing mods, but there should be a limit of one per item, and it can never be removed. And once again, the price should be high so it's something you have to work for.
3) Status symbols and visual customizations. People are vain, and they'll spend money to color their character's armor a certain way, or get some sort of impressive looking robe or totem to show off in public games.
4) Add a trainer for each class to the town of the last act. Make it cost a LOT of gold, but let the player purchase up to three skill points with exponentially increasing costs, something the D2 equivalent of millions of gold. Putting it in the last act lessens the chance of twinking the gold from other characters.
5) Make gold one of the requirements for unlocking D3's version of "Uber Tristram". Not the only req, but maybe one of three. One is random drops, one is a character level, the third is a massive donation.
All of these ideas were thought with the idea that someone will now accept gold in exchange for high level items. If someone can get enough gold by selling a high level (but useless to them) item to unlock special things, rather than grinding for days, they will.|||Quote:
Have more items at vendors worth buying,items that dont drop.
There ya go. I think that if they made it so vendors actually carried godly items for x amount of gold, that would single handedly create our new currency. People would be looking for gold everywhere
Ways to make gold relevant (AND OTHER RANDOM IDEAS):
1. Do what they did in WoW. Gold is relevant in WoW but not in D2, so they should follow WoW's example here.
2. Make sure there are a lot of mandatory day-to-day costs of adventuring. Between potions (if they are making it back), armor/weapon repair, tp/id scrolls, spell components etc., players should spend most of their money on upkeep after a battle.
Addition of spell components should also make the less item dependent classes like the sorc and necro more in line with the poor melee classes
3a. Make all items wear out each time they're repaired (like the warrior's skill in D1) so characters need to continually be repairing weapons and armor, and looking for replacements. This continual decay will keep players' money cycling back into the economy, instead of letting them build up huge amounts of money.
3b. Make players pay a large sum of money to prevent item decay; perhaps through an enchanter in town who prevents your items from losing durability for a temporary period. So high level characters can keep their stuff forever as long as they keep spending the money to enchant it with temporary indestructibility. This enchanter would charge a % of the cost of the item to enchant it, so high level items cost more to save; therefore higher level players will shell out more money to keep their gear. Maybe lower level players will constantly cycle through gear. But once you get your endgame stuff and have a lot of money, you will be forced to spend a lot of your money on this durability enchantment if you wanna keep this endgame set of gear.
4. Make gold hard to get. Like mouseman said, there's no reason for most of these monsters to be dropping gold, let alone as much as they do.
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4) Restrict the way you get gold. You could get gold only from chests, humanoid monsters, rewards from quests and so on. Why (or how!) maggots carry on gold, anyway?
Also reduce the amount of gold players get from selling items back to vendors. Why would Charsi want a low quality club of worthlessness? Or even a regular voulge? In a world where everything of use is highly enchanted anyway, it makes no sense that vendors should pay you even a dime for the cr-appy quality stuff you haul back from the dungeons. Anything you find that the vendors would want should be so good that you wanna use it yourself.
Also creatures can drop only items they could concievably be carrying or hoarding. So like skeleton captains drop those shields they carry and a low quality sword. Fallen drop little tiny daggers and tiny shields. Zombies and most animals drop nothing (except spell components). Gold and good items will come off of humanoid monsters and uniques. So if you fight a goatman archer with flaming arrows, if you kill him you get his flaming crossbow of fire. Or if you kill a monster guarding a hoard of items, you get all the items he was collecting (dragons like to collect phat lewts, so no reason other monsters might not want to). But it makes no sense to have a quill rat carrying around a voulge, and it makes items drop too frequently, which helps the economy get out of control.
This system of sparse drops might seem to make stuff you find worthless, and they probably won't sell for too much, but combined with the item decay from earlier, you probably will need a lot of the stuff that drops, since your armor and weapons will be breaking a lot. Maybe fallen drops won't be useful to you, since their items are so small, but killing goatmen or other humanoid demons should net some weapons and armor you can use in a pinch.
So under this system most of your good drops come from bosses (who will use the enchanted weapons against you) or be bought in town or crafted. Not much different from current D2, just removing a lot of the senseless junky drops that just fill up the screen. When you see a drop under this system, it should generally be good, and you'll know its coming, since you beat a hard *** boss to get it.
5. Make enchanter NPCs/or an enchanter class that can imbue like Charsi, so we increase the flow of magical items in the game (since many of my changes reduce it) while decreasing gold players have. So players can still have all the 1337 stuff they're used to from D2, but it'll cost them money from town; instead of being free (stolen from monsters).
tl;dr: make items decay, sell for less, and drop less often|||Quote:
1. Do what they did in WoW. Gold is relevant in WoW but not in D2, so they should follow WoW's example here.
What do you mean by emulating WoW? WoW's main money drain is mounts, and I'd hate to see those carry over into Diablo. If you're talking about how the Auction House economy revolves around gold .. I think DII's system of bartering is a little more "Diabloesque." It works for WoW, but I'd rather not be able to find gear for my character by simply typing in the name of something in the Search Bar and clicking "Bid!"
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2. Make sure there are a lot of mandatory day-to-day costs of adventuring. Between potions (if they are making it back), armor/weapon repair, tp/id scrolls, spell components etc., players should spend most of their money on upkeep after a battle.
Addition of spell components should also make the less item dependent classes like the sorc and necro more in line with the poor melee classes
3a. Make all items wear out each time they're repaired (like the warrior's skill in D1) so characters need to continually be repairing weapons and armor, and looking for replacements. This continual decay will keep players' money cycling back into the economy, instead of letting them build up huge amounts of money.
3b. Make players pay a large sum of money to prevent item decay; perhaps through an enchanter in town who prevents your items from losing durability for a temporary period. So high level characters can keep their stuff forever as long as they keep spending the money to enchant it with temporary indestructibility. This enchanter would charge a % of the cost of the item to enchant it, so high level items cost more to save; therefore higher level players will shell out more money to keep their gear. Maybe lower level players will constantly cycle through gear. But once you get your endgame stuff and have a lot of money, you will be forced to spend a lot of your money on this durability enchantment if you wanna keep this endgame set of gear.
I'd prefer spending as little time as possible having to worry about whether or not my gear is going to crumble apart. I'm a frickin' beast on the battle-field, wielding magical weapons of immense power .. Constantly watching my weapons and armor degrade detracts from that sense of strength.
I used to play a game called Gemstone III, and at one point, the developers introduced "weapon breakage." This system made it so weapons had a chance to break or be damaged if they made contact against a stronger metal than itself .. Cool idea that made for terrible gameplay. They opted to remove the breakage system post-haste.
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4. Make gold hard to get. Like mouseman said, there's no reason for most of these monsters to be dropping gold, let alone as much as they do.
Also reduce the amount of gold players get from selling items back to vendors. Why would Charsi want a low quality club of worthlessness? Or even a regular voulge? In a world where everything of use is highly enchanted anyway, it makes no sense that vendors should pay you even a dime for the cr-appy quality stuff you haul back from the dungeons. Anything you find that the vendors would want should be so good that you wanna use it yourself.
Also creatures can drop only items they could concievably be carrying or hoarding. So like skeleton captains drop those shields they carry and a low quality sword. Fallen drop little tiny daggers and tiny shields. Zombies and most animals drop nothing (except spell components). Gold and good items will come off of humanoid monsters and uniques. So if you fight a goatman archer with flaming arrows, if you kill him you get his flaming crossbow of fire. Or if you kill a monster guarding a hoard of items, you get all the items he was collecting (dragons like to collect phat lewts, so no reason other monsters might not want to). But it makes no sense to have a quill rat carrying around a voulge, and it makes items drop too frequently, which helps the economy get out of control.
This system of sparse drops might seem to make stuff you find worthless, and they probably won't sell for too much, but combined with the item decay from earlier, you probably will need a lot of the stuff that drops, since your armor and weapons will be breaking a lot. Maybe fallen drops won't be useful to you, since their items are so small, but killing goatmen or other humanoid demons should net some weapons and armor you can use in a pinch.
So under this system most of your good drops come from bosses (who will use the enchanted weapons against you) or be bought in town or crafted. Not much different from current D2, just removing a lot of the senseless junky drops that just fill up the screen. When you see a drop under this system, it should generally be good, and you'll know its coming, since you beat a hard *** boss to get it.
I agree that gold should be harder to come by. However, I disagree that junk items should be absolutely worthless at the vendor. I'd much rather them regulate the prices of certain overly-valuable items, such as wands and staves. Items with +skills always sell for an inordinate amount of gold, even if the item is a "cracked yew wand." I'd definitely be in favor of lowering the sell-prices of those few items, so if you want to make some extra gold by scavenging the field, everything's fair game .. not just a handful of things that don't necessarily make much sense.
I think it'd be a terrible mechanic to make monsters only drop what they logically should be able to drop. Realism can only go so far .. item-hunters would bypass or blow by huge areas of the game if they were full of monsters that didn't drop anything they needed. What point would there be for a Barbarian killing floors full of skeleton archers if the Barbarian doesn't need anything bow-related, for example? A few specific quotes of yours:
"This system of sparse drops might seem to make stuff you find worthless, and they probably won't sell for too much, but combined with the item decay from earlier, you probably will need a lot of the stuff that drops, since your armor and weapons will be breaking a lot."
Bottom-line here: Does that seem like a fun mechanic? "A lot of that stuff seems like worthless crap, but because your items are going to be constantly disintegrating, you'll need that crap!" Your suggestion here destroys almost all motivation for killing monsters in DII.
"So under this system most of your good drops come from bosses (who will use the enchanted weapons against you)"
We already have a problem with the frequency that bosses are killed for their loot. This is just another reason for people to farm bosses and avoid other content.
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5. Make enchanter NPCs/or an enchanter class that can imbue like Charsi, so we increase the flow of magical items in the game (since many of my changes reduce it) while decreasing gold players have. So players can still have all the 1337 stuff they're used to from D2, but it'll cost them money from town; instead of being free (stolen from monsters).
How is this an improvement? I think anyone would rather have the exhilarating rush of finding an item drop on the battle-field, opposed to...buying it at a vendor.
I don't mean to tear into your ideas, because a lot of them are great and make a lot of sense on paper. None of them, however, seem at all fun to me, and I think that should be the utmost consideration here.|||I agree with everything kaeros said, and disagree with almost everything voraginous said, with the exception of the concept of removing junky item drops.
However, the idea of tying it into a system of item decay is definitely the wrong way to go about eliminating junk drops imo.|||I like where gold is in D2 right now in many respects, all I'd like to see done directly to gold more user friendly is:
making it possible to store about 100x as much as you can currently (replace 1 mill gold with 1 platinum or whatever to make it easier to read amounts);
not lose cash in the stash on death; and
no limit on how much gold you can trade at once.
Gambling, the current use of gold other than minor irritations such as repairing stuff (I don't think that should go, if only because I really like the current ethereal property, OP as it is) is very worthwhile both for the high level player and the untwinked player, especially in classic. It should be speeded up tho, with a system along the lines of ctrl+clicking an item offered fills your inventory with items of that type assuming, gold allowing. Gambling and gfing is a very viable alternative to mfing in D2, especially pre 1.10 crafting. Buying gold to gamble on a high level char has better returns, at least excluding time taken to gamble/trade, vs buying pgems to roll gcs imo.
Butfor gold to play a major part in D3 (which I don't necessarily like) it simply has to have one single significent use that's seperate. Respeccing could be an appropriate gold sink, though whether/to what extent respeccing should be included in D3 is another topic in itself. In D2c it's pretty much the only way to get +2 amus (1 enemy also drops them, Diablo), which could have made gold in D2c a viable alternative currency (it is traded more often than in d2x but only for basics such as shard), if not for the trading and carrying restrictions and unecessary risk of carrying around larger amounts in SC. GF mod should be toned down if gold is given a significent new use.|||The difference between WoW's economy being gold based, and Diablo's economy being Barter based is a result of two things.
Lack of Gold in WoW, and an abundance of gold in Diablo. There's so much gold flying around in D2, that its not worth anything.
WoW's Soulbound system. In Diablo you can trade hand-me-downs. You can trade BoE items in WoW, but once you use them, they're no longer worth anything but the shard or vendor cost you get.
To make gold relevant in D3, there needs to either be some sort of limit on each. Either limit the item availability, or the gold availability. I think Diablo will always be on the bater end of trading, but with a little tweaking, it could move more towards the center.
-edit-
Another thought would be to use a copper -> silver -> gold -> Platinum system to condense things. I suppose if WoW used only gold, without the condensed increments, things might be different. Would it be easier to keep track of 100g in WoW's current system, or 1,000,000 copper?|||Quote:
What do you mean by emulating WoW? WoW's main money drain is mounts, and I'd hate to see those carry over into Diablo. If you're talking about how the Auction House economy revolves around gold .. I think DII's system of bartering is a little more "Diabloesque." It works for WoW, but I'd rather not be able to find gear for my character by simply typing in the name of something in the Search Bar and clicking "Bid!"
Neither. I don't think mounts or auction houses should carry over into Diablo.
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I'd prefer spending as little time as possible having to worry about whether or not my gear is going to crumble apart. I'm a frickin' beast on the battle-field, wielding magical weapons of immense power .. Constantly watching my weapons and armor degrade detracts from that sense of strength.
Well you wouldn't have to spend time worrying about it, just like you don't spend time worrying about repairs now. You just click a button and it's taken care of. Right next to the repair button you have a "durability enchant" button and a "durability enchant all" button which you use periodically to stop decay. This is purely a gold sink for higher level players who are on their final end game set of items, not an upkeep cost lower levels really need to worry about. But I can see how it doesn't fit the frenetic pace of the game. It's more of a roguelike type mechanic, where you have to worry about hunger and such.. it's more of a nethack of diablo 1 mechanic than a diablo 2 or 3 mechanic
Quote:
I used to play a game called Gemstone III, and at one point, the developers introduced "weapon breakage." This system made it so weapons had a chance to break or be damaged if they made contact against a stronger metal than itself .. Cool idea that made for terrible gameplay. They opted to remove the breakage system post-haste.
Well weapons wouldn't break instantly, but over time you would have to either a) replace your gear with new gear or b) pay large amounts of money to keep your gear from decaying.
It's a goldsink, nothing more. Functionally it's the same as increasing repair costs to a large % of the items's value to prevent too much gold building up. In fact, I think that would be a better system, since it uses what we have in Diablo 2 and simply changes some of the background numbers a bit.
Reading your arguments makes me realize that a decay mechanic can be replaced by a slightly retooled repair mechanic instead; with no need for using crappy items. It makes some sense: your nuclear broadsword of destruction can't be sharpened with a normal whetstone, it needs a nuclear enchanted whetstone and an enchanted lead scabbard and trace amounts of phoenix feathers and so on and so forth. So the bigger the item, the higher the repair costs.
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I agree that gold should be harder to come by. However, I disagree that junk items should be absolutely worthless at the vendor. I'd much rather them regulate the prices of certain overly-valuable items, such as wands and staves. Items with +skills always sell for an inordinate amount of gold, even if the item is a "cracked yew wand." I'd definitely be in favor of lowering the sell-prices of those few items, so if you want to make some extra gold by scavenging the field, everything's fair game .. not just a handful of things that don't necessarily make much sense.
This makes sense, though I do like the idea of being able to tell what will and won't sell at a glance. Hrmm.. I think I'd prefer if less junk dropped in the first place. Not sure though.
Quote:
I think it'd be a terrible mechanic to make monsters only drop what they logically should be able to drop. Realism can only go so far .. item-hunters would bypass or blow by huge areas of the game if they were full of monsters that didn't drop anything they needed. What point would there be for a Barbarian killing floors full of skeleton archers if the Barbarian doesn't need anything bow-related, for example? A few specific quotes of yours:
"This system of sparse drops might seem to make stuff you find worthless, and they probably won't sell for too much, but combined with the item decay from earlier, you probably will need a lot of the stuff that drops, since your armor and weapons will be breaking a lot."
Bottom-line here: Does that seem like a fun mechanic? "A lot of that stuff seems like worthless crap, but because your items are going to be constantly disintegrating, you'll need that crap!" Your suggestion here destroys almost all motivation for killing monsters in DII.
"So under this system most of your good drops come from bosses (who will use the enchanted weapons against you)"
We already have a problem with the frequency that bosses are killed for their loot. This is just another reason for people to farm bosses and avoid other content.
Well I'm thinking champions and uniques that spawn on the map or in adventures, not bosses like Diablo Baal or Andy. You wouldn't do runs to get gear, you'd go out into the world and kill uniques where you ran into them. In fact there might be less boss running since you'd often simply be targeting uniques and their packs. It'd be a lot closer to today's system than I think you're envisioning except that a lot of the crap drops would be standardized. So fallen always drop crappy daggers and bucklers instead of dropping crappy voulges or spears.
But as far as crappy drops you're right. I think it's cooler to have more people running around with hugely magical weapons (and it fits Blizz's philosophy) rather than having 99.99% of people be mundane.
Anyway I thought it was a cool idea, but after looking at it again the current system is probably a lot more fun--though I still think my ideas could work.
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How is this an improvement? I think anyone would rather have the exhilarating rush of finding an item drop on the battle-field, opposed to...buying it at a vendor.
I agree with this too. Vending is less fun than questing probably. I don't know what I was thinking here :P
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I don't mean to tear into your ideas, because a lot of them are great and make a lot of sense on paper. None of them, however, seem at all fun to me, and I think that should be the utmost consideration here.
No most of your points are spot on. I think you misunderstood me in some placed, but many of my ideas weren't well formed and you attacked those with some efficiency.
Quote:
The difference between WoW's economy being gold based, and Diablo's economy being Barter based is a result of two things.
Lack of Gold in WoW, and an abundance of gold in Diablo. There's so much gold flying around in D2, that its not worth anything.
WoW's Soulbound system. In Diablo you can trade hand-me-downs. You can trade BoE items in WoW, but once you use them, they're no longer worth anything but the shard or vendor cost you get.
To make gold relevant in D3, there needs to either be some sort of limit on each. Either limit the item availability, or the gold availability. I think Diablo will always be on the bater end of trading, but with a little tweaking, it could move more towards the center.
-edit-
Another thought would be to use a copper -> silver -> gold -> Platinum system to condense things. I suppose if WoW used only gold, without the condensed increments, things might be different. Would it be easier to keep track of 100g in WoW's current system, or 1,000,000 copper?
I think you hit the nail on the head with your reasons that WoW has a controlled economy. But IMO the BoE mechanic doesn't fit Diablo (neither do mounts) so we're stuck with limiting the availability of gold by making it very scarce. The problem with this is no matter how scarce you make gold, people will have a lot of it without gold sinks.
I don't think the copper/silver/gold system is even needed if the amounts of gold are controlled enough, but I suppose it's OK.
Also important are controlling hacking and macros.|||Decrease need to repair (Nobody likes to run to the town every 5 minutes) but increase repaircost.
Death costs money, like D2.
Gambling.
Respeccing. Cost increases exponentially with a max and decreases slowly over time.
Buyable buffs. Costly, thus only real use if a boss is too tough ATM. (Lineage 2
)|||A few ideas, some have been mentioned:1) Be able to gamble on ANYTHING. You can gamble on rings, even though those are magic at minimum, why not gamble on charms? Just make it so that most come out as +1 to light radius, or similarly useless mods, and make the price HIGH.
2) I like the idea of purchasing mods, but there should be a limit of one per item, and it can never be removed. And once again, the price should be high so it's something you have to work for.
3) Status symbols and visual customizations. People are vain, and they'll spend money to color their character's armor a certain way, or get some sort of impressive looking robe or totem to show off in public games.
4) Add a trainer for each class to the town of the last act. Make it cost a LOT of gold, but let the player purchase up to three skill points with exponentially increasing costs, something the D2 equivalent of millions of gold. Putting it in the last act lessens the chance of twinking the gold from other characters.
5) Make gold one of the requirements for unlocking D3's version of "Uber Tristram". Not the only req, but maybe one of three. One is random drops, one is a character level, the third is a massive donation.
All of these ideas were thought with the idea that someone will now accept gold in exchange for high level items. If someone can get enough gold by selling a high level (but useless to them) item to unlock special things, rather than grinding for days, they will.|||Quote:
Have more items at vendors worth buying,items that dont drop.
There ya go. I think that if they made it so vendors actually carried godly items for x amount of gold, that would single handedly create our new currency. People would be looking for gold everywhere
How to make gold relevant.
[:1]The title says it all, how can blizzard make gold relevant in Diablo 3?|||1) Gambling definitely needs to make a comeback.
2) To steal an idea from Hellgate, perhaps a donation system that triggers an entire server buff of some sort. It doesn't work in Hellgate well because of the lower playerbase, but the numbers would definitely be there for DIII.
3) Perhaps gold can be transmuted or tempered into something worthwhile.
4) Allow for unlimited growth of personal storage space, however make the gold cost of additional space grow exponentially.
5) Take the customization of mercenaries one step farther, and create a system of 'purchasing' enhancements for them with gold. Extra life, extra armor, extra damage, different haircuts, tattoos, voices, titles, skin color, faces, outfits... Since we will be unable to customize our characters, let our mercenaries become our dress-up dolls.
#4 and #5, in my opinion, would be the best sinks for gold.|||Quote:
To steal an idea from Hellgate, perhaps a donation system that triggers an entire server buff of some sort. It doesn't work in Hellgate well because Hellgate has 14 active players, but the playerbase would definitely be there for DIII.
ouch
That aside I like all of your ideas. 2 is fun and I particularly like 4 and 5.
But hireable mercenaries haven't been mentioned by Blizzard yet.|||Quote:
ouch
That aside I like all of your ideas. 2 is fun and I particularly like 4 and 5.
But mercenaries haven't been mentioned yet.
Haha, yeah.. edited to be less bitter.
|||1) You could buy maps to nearby areas from town. The townspeople would know the areas near the town well, but the further you want to travel the more the maps would cost and they could even have gaps and mistakes in them.
2) Have respeccing cost a lot.
3) Have gold as a trading currency.
4) Restrict the way you get gold. You could get gold only from chests, humanoid monsters, rewards from quests and so on. Why (or how!) maggots carry on gold, anyway?|||No respecs please.
Making gold harder to get would help a great deal.
Also maybe do something like Sell AA points for insane amounts of loot.
Rentable Billboards in town.|||Seeing the currency is Perfect gems and then runes, what you must do is tie gold to these two currencies. So gamble for flawless gems and runes, then you have it. A million gold is some gems, or maybe a good rune, prolly only ****ty runes but at least some gems, it's your gamble.|||DONT LOOSE ANY WHEN YOU DIE!, thats the main problem... if gold was usefull in DII, then you wouldnt be able to loose like 20% of youre wealth whenever you get Soul Jumped.... lol thats it basically imo... (also and unlimited gold amount in stash could help... i always filled mine...)
Then though, the good old GF baba would be such a played build... you would be soooo rich...
Then you could make some of the better/best items soulbound like in WoW then you have to rely on gold as the best titems wont be tradeable... Eg, SoJ...
just my 2C
|||Two ways I thought of were to be able to upgrade your magic items with gold.
First, have an enchanter that can add mods to an item, up to a max number, say 3 for uncommon, 1 for rare etc.
Second, have a way to increase the mod's value through a different type of enchanter. For example you get your soldiers sword with 23% enhanced damage, you can pay an amount of gold to make it 24%, or further depending on how much gold you spend.|||Um..., remove that silly sell limit of 35K?
2) To steal an idea from Hellgate, perhaps a donation system that triggers an entire server buff of some sort. It doesn't work in Hellgate well because of the lower playerbase, but the numbers would definitely be there for DIII.
3) Perhaps gold can be transmuted or tempered into something worthwhile.
4) Allow for unlimited growth of personal storage space, however make the gold cost of additional space grow exponentially.
5) Take the customization of mercenaries one step farther, and create a system of 'purchasing' enhancements for them with gold. Extra life, extra armor, extra damage, different haircuts, tattoos, voices, titles, skin color, faces, outfits... Since we will be unable to customize our characters, let our mercenaries become our dress-up dolls.
#4 and #5, in my opinion, would be the best sinks for gold.|||Quote:
To steal an idea from Hellgate, perhaps a donation system that triggers an entire server buff of some sort. It doesn't work in Hellgate well because Hellgate has 14 active players, but the playerbase would definitely be there for DIII.
ouch
That aside I like all of your ideas. 2 is fun and I particularly like 4 and 5.
But hireable mercenaries haven't been mentioned by Blizzard yet.|||Quote:
ouch
That aside I like all of your ideas. 2 is fun and I particularly like 4 and 5.
But mercenaries haven't been mentioned yet.
Haha, yeah.. edited to be less bitter.
|||1) You could buy maps to nearby areas from town. The townspeople would know the areas near the town well, but the further you want to travel the more the maps would cost and they could even have gaps and mistakes in them.2) Have respeccing cost a lot.
3) Have gold as a trading currency.
4) Restrict the way you get gold. You could get gold only from chests, humanoid monsters, rewards from quests and so on. Why (or how!) maggots carry on gold, anyway?|||No respecs please.
Making gold harder to get would help a great deal.
Also maybe do something like Sell AA points for insane amounts of loot.
Rentable Billboards in town
.|||Seeing the currency is Perfect gems and then runes, what you must do is tie gold to these two currencies. So gamble for flawless gems and runes, then you have it. A million gold is some gems, or maybe a good rune, prolly only ****ty runes but at least some gems, it's your gamble.|||DONT LOOSE ANY WHEN YOU DIE!, thats the main problem... if gold was usefull in DII, then you wouldnt be able to loose like 20% of youre wealth whenever you get Soul Jumped.... lol thats it basically imo... (also and unlimited gold amount in stash could help... i always filled mine...)Then though, the good old GF baba would be such a played build... you would be soooo rich...
Then you could make some of the better/best items soulbound like in WoW then you have to rely on gold as the best titems wont be tradeable... Eg, SoJ...
just my 2C
|||Two ways I thought of were to be able to upgrade your magic items with gold. First, have an enchanter that can add mods to an item, up to a max number, say 3 for uncommon, 1 for rare etc.
Second, have a way to increase the mod's value through a different type of enchanter. For example you get your soldiers sword with 23% enhanced damage, you can pay an amount of gold to make it 24%, or further depending on how much gold you spend.|||Um..., remove that silly sell limit of 35K?
Guild Halls, Arenas and clan markings
[:1]It seems that many people would love to have clan halls that they could join and then use to store items they find and have arena's for pvp with maybe options to put up items for fights where winner takes items. Also the guild members would have something they could put on that has emblem that identifies the clan.
Arena's would be good to keep the pvm areas open for pvm.
|||This isn't an MMO, and you can combine what you want to say into one thread.|||Nothing at all wrong with having MMO aspects in. I for one would love to have clan halls and markings. It would avoid the problems from D2 where people would have to make entirely separate accounts for clan characters and group mules.
Arena's would be good to keep the pvm areas open for pvm.
|||This isn't an MMO, and you can combine what you want to say into one thread.|||Nothing at all wrong with having MMO aspects in. I for one would love to have clan halls and markings. It would avoid the problems from D2 where people would have to make entirely separate accounts for clan characters and group mules.
"This Magic Ring does me no good." - Page 5
[:1]If it's possible to rush the game with a friend, it would be bad to have awesome quest rewards. If "rushing" takes the better half of a day then i support great item rewards.|||Quote:
If it's possible to rush the game with a friend, it would be bad to have awesome quest rewards. If "rushing" takes the better half of a day then i support great item rewards.
Quest rewards should ofc be bound to the character who got it.|||Aaaah, this thread makes me remember getting a lance imbued was actually useful in classic D2|||It would be great if reward items were like D2 crafts. That is, the reward items could have semi-random stats, coupled with random stats. This way you know you can get something at least remotely useful.
If it's possible to rush the game with a friend, it would be bad to have awesome quest rewards. If "rushing" takes the better half of a day then i support great item rewards.
Quest rewards should ofc be bound to the character who got it.|||Aaaah, this thread makes me remember getting a lance imbued was actually useful in classic D2
|||It would be great if reward items were like D2 crafts. That is, the reward items could have semi-random stats, coupled with random stats. This way you know you can get something at least remotely useful.
"This Magic Ring does me no good." - Page 4
[:1]Quote:
I wouldn't mind useless rewards if they were at least interesting or amusing in some way. I wouldn't want a +3 life cap, but I might consider a +3 life pimp hat.
No, that should be a +3 stamina pimp hat, if you catch my drift.|||Quote:
No, that should be a +3 stamina pimp hat, if you catch my drift.
You know they have potions for that, right?|||Quote:
No, that should be a +3 stamina pimp hat, if you catch my drift.
Good one. But I agree with the general consensus of the thread. If it takes me an hour to find some stupid knife, and all I get is a useless ring, why would I do it? I might do as phaolo did and kill him with the stupid pricker. Now if I could only get cain to shut up...|||I wouldn't mind doing a quest once or twice where the NPC quest-giver (I'm thinking of a new age Wirt) rewards you with the most wretched item possible, like a crude cap with altered durability (1/1) and massively negative stat effects. Especially if it had your name on it or something. Would be fun for kicks and giggles!
|||Quote:
I wouldn't mind doing a quest once or twice where the NPC quest-giver (I'm thinking of a new age Wirt) rewards you with the most wretched item possible, like a crude cap with altered durability (1/1) and massively negative stat effects. Especially if it had your name on it or something. Would be fun for kicks and giggles!
and it would be even better if we would have opportunatly to kick his arse and have better rewards
edit: reward something like andy's bugged quest, but you could do it, like..... twenty times, or that he would open tp to boss with good gear, or what ever....|||Quote:
WELL IT DOESN'T DO ME ANY GOOD EITHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Come on Blizzard... lets get some serious rewards. .
LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL And giving Charsi something to imbue is like trying to have a conversation with Dekard Cain, pointless.
|||/me has a mental image of the OP chasing Ormus all over Kurast throwing trash rings at Ormus >:P
Most of the rewards in D2 sucked - "Yay, you defeated a vile necromancer who had just betrayed all of us - you get one of your items named after you as thanks for your hardships!". Useless, thanks for nothing...
Side-quests should give class specific rewards as many have said, story quests, on the other hand, should be a more generally useful reward (skill points or better), since you're forced to go through them anyway.
Many newer ARPGs give you XP for every quest completed (optional or not). That's a decent basic reward and I see nothing wrong with using that in Diablo 3 as well.|||Those rings usually do suck, but I'm very poor most of the time so I still do them on the off chance I get something useful. I think the one I got on nightmare had life leech, a big AR boost, and lightning resists so I was content.|||Some of the early quest rewards in D3 are items, tailored to your level. A quest right at the start in ruined tristram gave magical boots (which were nice, at level 1). one in this year's blizzcon build in act 2 was a rare belt. which was also useful, at level 14ish. (Some of these quests also earned you experience.)
HGL used similar rewards, and it was helpful to the devs for balancing since the could assume your char had at least some quality of equipment at various points in the early game.
I do wonder how those rewards will work on higher diff levels, though. I'd assume they'll just scale up, but then you've got "these magic _______ do me no good" like 15x a game. And that would get very annoying.
Maybe at higher levels they could offer you a choice of item types, sort of like a free gamble. Or you could just take a random gem or rune or something instead. There's a reason the Hellforge reward was about the most popular in NM/Hell, while Ormus was a punchline.|||By the way, game design has gone a very long way since D2 release.
Bottom line, I consider D3 dev team's skilled enought to be able to tailor quest rewards to your character, to some limited degree at least, or come up with more interesting kind of rewards.
So if you're a caster type it just is plainly simple to figure it out a +cast-speed/+mana/+will/+elemental-dmg/+def-vs-missiles can potentially be helpfull to you. So when rolling a random item as a reward, why don't simply pick one modifier out of that character-tailored pool, and then going with other randomly selected mods as usual?
That's not intended to be handled that way for every quest reward, but it would be a nice approach for some of them.
Also, you could have very different but still nice rewards, ie way item customization. Having an item named after you as a main storyline related quest reward sucks, but maybe not so much in a sidequest's case?
Being able to choose your gear's color as a quest reward?
What about buffs? No Ormus, go f**k yourself, I don't want your usless items, my friend Mephisto is probably going to gift me something better. Why don't you instead give me a +10% damage bonus for the next 10 minutes? That would very much be appreciated.
Since it seems gold will be much more valuable in D3, maybe a nice pile of money could be nice too, every now and then.
Also, to bring up something on another line, interesting lore pieces could be considered a worthy reward, depending on the quest. So if I'm supposed to save some guardsman who's being kidnapped by the dark cultists, he could give me some additional very interesting and otherwise unknown insight on what's been going on, in addition to the usual random item/XP. It would had to the overall knowing-you've-done-something-meaningfull feeling, and would certainly entertain the lore-lovers too.
Seriously, if I'm able to come up with this little ideas in just 2 minutes, Blizz should seriously better be coming up with something interesting and meaningfull (or employ me. just kidding).
I wouldn't mind useless rewards if they were at least interesting or amusing in some way. I wouldn't want a +3 life cap, but I might consider a +3 life pimp hat.
No, that should be a +3 stamina pimp hat, if you catch my drift.|||Quote:
No, that should be a +3 stamina pimp hat, if you catch my drift.
You know they have potions for that, right?|||Quote:
No, that should be a +3 stamina pimp hat, if you catch my drift.
Good one. But I agree with the general consensus of the thread. If it takes me an hour to find some stupid knife, and all I get is a useless ring, why would I do it? I might do as phaolo did and kill him with the stupid pricker. Now if I could only get cain to shut up...|||I wouldn't mind doing a quest once or twice where the NPC quest-giver (I'm thinking of a new age Wirt) rewards you with the most wretched item possible, like a crude cap with altered durability (1/1) and massively negative stat effects. Especially if it had your name on it or something. Would be fun for kicks and giggles!
|||Quote:I wouldn't mind doing a quest once or twice where the NPC quest-giver (I'm thinking of a new age Wirt) rewards you with the most wretched item possible, like a crude cap with altered durability (1/1) and massively negative stat effects. Especially if it had your name on it or something. Would be fun for kicks and giggles!
and it would be even better if we would have opportunatly to kick his arse and have better rewards
edit: reward something like andy's bugged quest, but you could do it, like..... twenty times, or that he would open tp to boss with good gear, or what ever....|||Quote:
WELL IT DOESN'T DO ME ANY GOOD EITHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Come on Blizzard... lets get some serious rewards. .
LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL And giving Charsi something to imbue is like trying to have a conversation with Dekard Cain, pointless.
|||/me has a mental image of the OP chasing Ormus all over Kurast throwing trash rings at Ormus >:PMost of the rewards in D2 sucked - "Yay, you defeated a vile necromancer who had just betrayed all of us - you get one of your items named after you as thanks for your hardships!". Useless, thanks for nothing...
Side-quests should give class specific rewards as many have said, story quests, on the other hand, should be a more generally useful reward (skill points or better), since you're forced to go through them anyway.
Many newer ARPGs give you XP for every quest completed (optional or not). That's a decent basic reward and I see nothing wrong with using that in Diablo 3 as well.|||Those rings usually do suck, but I'm very poor most of the time so I still do them on the off chance I get something useful. I think the one I got on nightmare had life leech, a big AR boost, and lightning resists so I was content.|||Some of the early quest rewards in D3 are items, tailored to your level. A quest right at the start in ruined tristram gave magical boots (which were nice, at level 1). one in this year's blizzcon build in act 2 was a rare belt. which was also useful, at level 14ish. (Some of these quests also earned you experience.)
HGL used similar rewards, and it was helpful to the devs for balancing since the could assume your char had at least some quality of equipment at various points in the early game.
I do wonder how those rewards will work on higher diff levels, though. I'd assume they'll just scale up, but then you've got "these magic _______ do me no good" like 15x a game. And that would get very annoying.
Maybe at higher levels they could offer you a choice of item types, sort of like a free gamble. Or you could just take a random gem or rune or something instead. There's a reason the Hellforge reward was about the most popular in NM/Hell, while Ormus was a punchline.|||By the way, game design has gone a very long way since D2 release.
Bottom line, I consider D3 dev team's skilled enought to be able to tailor quest rewards to your character, to some limited degree at least, or come up with more interesting kind of rewards.
So if you're a caster type it just is plainly simple to figure it out a +cast-speed/+mana/+will/+elemental-dmg/+def-vs-missiles can potentially be helpfull to you. So when rolling a random item as a reward, why don't simply pick one modifier out of that character-tailored pool, and then going with other randomly selected mods as usual?
That's not intended to be handled that way for every quest reward, but it would be a nice approach for some of them.
Also, you could have very different but still nice rewards, ie way item customization. Having an item named after you as a main storyline related quest reward sucks, but maybe not so much in a sidequest's case?
Being able to choose your gear's color as a quest reward?
What about buffs? No Ormus, go f**k yourself, I don't want your usless items, my friend Mephisto is probably going to gift me something better. Why don't you instead give me a +10% damage bonus for the next 10 minutes? That would very much be appreciated.
Since it seems gold will be much more valuable in D3, maybe a nice pile of money could be nice too, every now and then.
Also, to bring up something on another line, interesting lore pieces could be considered a worthy reward, depending on the quest. So if I'm supposed to save some guardsman who's being kidnapped by the dark cultists, he could give me some additional very interesting and otherwise unknown insight on what's been going on, in addition to the usual random item/XP. It would had to the overall knowing-you've-done-something-meaningfull feeling, and would certainly entertain the lore-lovers too.
Seriously, if I'm able to come up with this little ideas in just 2 minutes, Blizz should seriously better be coming up with something interesting and meaningfull (or employ me. just kidding).
"This Magic Ring does me no good." - Page 3
[:1]Well, after the third useless ring I killed him with the Gibdin and took his 15/15/14/3light Robes (hehe). 
Noone seemed to care, so I'm still with the good ones
Little OT:
I've found the best rare amulet ever!
Stone Scarab
Amulet
+49 to Life
+9 to Mana
All Resistances +11
5% Life stolen per hit
3% Mana stolen per hit
+2 to Druid Skill Levels
Wow..too bad it only happened one time..|||agreed-i hate being rewarded with something i just sell immediately for 1.5k,lmao
well said borg|||Quote:
IIRC, the class specific rewards were a bit better and more usefull.
Play as an amazon. Without fail, you Anya WILL give you a weapon type opposite to the one you've dedicated your build to.|||I've never used a reward item from any of the quests except the Charsi quest. Once in a while I'll get a somewhat decent item from her (it's because of my dashing good looks).|||Quote:
Play as an amazon. Without fail, you Anya WILL give you a weapon type opposite to the one you've dedicated your build to.
The best part is, there's a one out of three chance she'll give you a spear. I think we all know how well two handed weapons (other than bows) work on characters who don't have massive life and defense like the Barbarian.
Eff you Atma and that +1 to mana ring you gave me. EFF YOU!|||Quote:
It's like.... yeah Ormus, thanks for the 1000 gold I'm about to get FROM YOU for the ring you just gave me which will be sold back to you anyway.
that is mine thought every time i do him, so, if i hadnt a ring by that time, any will do, or i could have some coins to gamble better one %)%|||yeah these quest reward were sooo bad...wont they give massive xp also now in D3 though?|||I don't think a game can have both a) the chance of getting something amazing from a random drop, and b) the certainty of getting something amazing as a quest reward. Especially since the game then has to be rebalanced around the assumption that everybody has the quest reward, making it all of a sudden non-amazing
I'd be good with the "choice among a few things, which will be an upgrade if you've had bad luck in that slot but won't be an upgrade if you've had good luck" though.
And skill points or anything else you CAN'T get as a drop are always welcome, and will absolutely get people to do the quest.|||I wouldn't mind useless rewards if they were at least interesting or amusing in some way. I wouldn't want a +3 life cap, but I might consider a +3 life pimp hat.|||Quote:
I wouldn't mind useless rewards if they were at least interesting or amusing in some way. I wouldn't want a +3 life cap, but I might consider a +3 life pimp hat.
Maybe zebra print with a pink feather stuck in the brim? That barbarian's a bad moth- SHUT YOUR MOUTH!
It fits in more with Saint's Row 2 than D3, admittedly.
Noone seemed to care, so I'm still with the good ones
Little OT:
I've found the best rare amulet ever!
Stone Scarab
Amulet
+49 to Life
+9 to Mana
All Resistances +11
5% Life stolen per hit
3% Mana stolen per hit
+2 to Druid Skill Levels
Wow..too bad it only happened one time..|||agreed-i hate being rewarded with something i just sell immediately for 1.5k,lmao
well said borg
|||Quote:IIRC, the class specific rewards were a bit better and more usefull.
Play as an amazon. Without fail, you Anya WILL give you a weapon type opposite to the one you've dedicated your build to.|||I've never used a reward item from any of the quests except the Charsi quest. Once in a while I'll get a somewhat decent item from her (it's because of my dashing good looks).|||Quote:
Play as an amazon. Without fail, you Anya WILL give you a weapon type opposite to the one you've dedicated your build to.
The best part is, there's a one out of three chance she'll give you a spear. I think we all know how well two handed weapons (other than bows) work on characters who don't have massive life and defense like the Barbarian.
Eff you Atma and that +1 to mana ring you gave me. EFF YOU!|||Quote:
It's like.... yeah Ormus, thanks for the 1000 gold I'm about to get FROM YOU for the ring you just gave me which will be sold back to you anyway.
that is mine thought every time i do him, so, if i hadnt a ring by that time, any will do, or i could have some coins to gamble better one %)%|||yeah these quest reward were sooo bad...wont they give massive xp also now in D3 though?|||I don't think a game can have both a) the chance of getting something amazing from a random drop, and b) the certainty of getting something amazing as a quest reward. Especially since the game then has to be rebalanced around the assumption that everybody has the quest reward, making it all of a sudden non-amazing
I'd be good with the "choice among a few things, which will be an upgrade if you've had bad luck in that slot but won't be an upgrade if you've had good luck" though.
And skill points or anything else you CAN'T get as a drop are always welcome, and will absolutely get people to do the quest.|||I wouldn't mind useless rewards if they were at least interesting or amusing in some way. I wouldn't want a +3 life cap, but I might consider a +3 life pimp hat.|||Quote:
I wouldn't mind useless rewards if they were at least interesting or amusing in some way. I wouldn't want a +3 life cap, but I might consider a +3 life pimp hat.
Maybe zebra print with a pink feather stuck in the brim? That barbarian's a bad moth- SHUT YOUR MOUTH!
It fits in more with Saint's Row 2 than D3, admittedly.
"This Magic Ring does me no good." - Page 2
[:1]Quote:
WELL IT DOESN'T DO ME ANY GOOD EITHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My feelings exactly
I remember almost smashing my keyboard and mouse in rage when I got the "This Magic Ring does me no good message"
Went from neutral to extremely pis*** off in 0.2 seconds :P|||I hate you ormus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!|||Mehh you start to ignore the guy after u have been disappointed the first two times lol after that you know its crap and u take it and just sell it for the heck of it|||It's like.... yeah Ormus, thanks for the 1000 gold I'm about to get FROM YOU for the ring you just gave me which will be sold back to you anyway.|||I think it should be like this: a few random side quests per act that are different for each character and you get a unique class specific item that is only available through that quest|||Yes, Blizzard, don't do @ss drops, please, especially from imbues and rewards from npcs. No fighter in his right mind goes to hell, or normal for that matter, with a stamina ring. Don't make me feel like the name-changing chief on 'The Secret Show'.|||for quests like that you should get a unique ring that relates to the act, for example using the ormus quest as an example (woah akward wording), Ormus should give you a ring that say, comes from the Eastern mage clans or something, and it should get better depending on difficulty levels.|||one thing i would love to see in d3 is multiple rolls on any item quest reward. for instance, if the quest reward is a rare ring, the game will roll 3 seperate rare rings and let you pick which one of the 3 you want. this should give players a better chance to get something usefull.|||Quote:
one thing i would love to see in d3 is multiple rolls on any item quest reward. for instance, if the quest reward is a rare ring, the game will roll 3 seperate rare rings and let you pick which one of the 3 you want. this should give players a better chance to get something usefull.
Good Idea, but since 9 out of 10 (99 out of 100 - whatever) are trash, I say give it at least 10 rolls and you only get to choose one.|||I think, given the way rewards work in WoW, it's likely we'll see an option between two or more rewards, randomly generated or set, I couldn't call. In Diablo 1 there were set quests with set rewards (Harlequin crest, Arkane's Valor, Undead Crown, Butcher's Cleaver, etc.), the items had no trade value, because everyone could get them (and duping was rampant, but that's beside the point), and they simply served as decent middle-ground equipment.
I think getting to pick your imbues would be unbalancing, even if it was just one mod you got to pick. The reason it is in act I is to provide the player with a (sometimes) decent rare item of their own choosing. Can you imagine if you were gambling circlets and you were able to check a box that said "all rares will have +2 to paladin skills", it'd be madness, everyone would save all three imbues till high level, and make themselves godly items, which simply isn't the intent. Picking the number of sockets would be unbalancing, but only for the fact that runewords are so powerful. If it weren't for runewords, there'd be no question, it'd all ways be "As many as the item can have!".
Ormus has been mean to me many times, though he did give my claw assassin in nightmare a dual-leech ring with nice mods (1:100 sounds about right, lol)
Note: Just realized Blizzard already did give the "generate rares with set desired prefixes" with crafting, granted it's limited to very specific items, but apparently they have considered it before.
WELL IT DOESN'T DO ME ANY GOOD EITHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My feelings exactly
I remember almost smashing my keyboard and mouse in rage when I got the "This Magic Ring does me no good message"
Went from neutral to extremely pis*** off in 0.2 seconds :P|||I hate you ormus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!|||Mehh you start to ignore the guy after u have been disappointed the first two times lol after that you know its crap and u take it and just sell it for the heck of it|||It's like.... yeah Ormus, thanks for the 1000 gold I'm about to get FROM YOU for the ring you just gave me which will be sold back to you anyway.|||I think it should be like this: a few random side quests per act that are different for each character and you get a unique class specific item that is only available through that quest|||Yes, Blizzard, don't do @ss drops, please, especially from imbues and rewards from npcs. No fighter in his right mind goes to hell, or normal for that matter, with a stamina ring. Don't make me feel like the name-changing chief on 'The Secret Show'.|||for quests like that you should get a unique ring that relates to the act, for example using the ormus quest as an example (woah akward wording), Ormus should give you a ring that say, comes from the Eastern mage clans or something, and it should get better depending on difficulty levels.|||one thing i would love to see in d3 is multiple rolls on any item quest reward. for instance, if the quest reward is a rare ring, the game will roll 3 seperate rare rings and let you pick which one of the 3 you want. this should give players a better chance to get something usefull.|||Quote:
one thing i would love to see in d3 is multiple rolls on any item quest reward. for instance, if the quest reward is a rare ring, the game will roll 3 seperate rare rings and let you pick which one of the 3 you want. this should give players a better chance to get something usefull.
Good Idea, but since 9 out of 10 (99 out of 100 - whatever) are trash, I say give it at least 10 rolls and you only get to choose one.
|||I think, given the way rewards work in WoW, it's likely we'll see an option between two or more rewards, randomly generated or set, I couldn't call. In Diablo 1 there were set quests with set rewards (Harlequin crest, Arkane's Valor, Undead Crown, Butcher's Cleaver, etc.), the items had no trade value, because everyone could get them (and duping was rampant, but that's beside the point), and they simply served as decent middle-ground equipment.I think getting to pick your imbues would be unbalancing, even if it was just one mod you got to pick. The reason it is in act I is to provide the player with a (sometimes) decent rare item of their own choosing. Can you imagine if you were gambling circlets and you were able to check a box that said "all rares will have +2 to paladin skills", it'd be madness, everyone would save all three imbues till high level, and make themselves godly items, which simply isn't the intent. Picking the number of sockets would be unbalancing, but only for the fact that runewords are so powerful. If it weren't for runewords, there'd be no question, it'd all ways be "As many as the item can have!".
Ormus has been mean to me many times, though he did give my claw assassin in nightmare a dual-leech ring with nice mods
(1:100 sounds about right, lol)Note: Just realized Blizzard already did give the "generate rares with set desired prefixes" with crafting, granted it's limited to very specific items, but apparently they have considered it before.
"This Magic Ring does me no good."
[:1]WELL IT DOESN'T DO ME ANY GOOD EITHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Come on Blizzard... lets get some serious rewards. Not just the 12 skill pts, 60 life and 15 stat points D2 offers.|||lol. True.
IIRC, the class specific rewards were a bit better and more usefull. Since there are class specific quests, i think, the rewards will be good. At least I hope so.|||I agree, if they put them in let them make it at least worth our while to do them. Lets no make them just time fillers...|||Quote:
WELL IT DOESN'T DO ME ANY GOOD EITHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Come on Blizzard... lets get some serious rewards. Not just the 12 skill pts, 60 life and 15 stat points D2 offers.
hehehe, VOUCH.
it always pissed me off that after saving his miserable hide, the best ormus can come up with is some trash ring he doesn't want anyway (because it's trash, d'uh)
and i've lost count of the number of blasted Imbues that have come back lacking only ONE damn vital mod...... (2sox/ed/10ias/+3ls/+3venom/+3fade greater talon in one case. where was the damn fools mod..... grrrrr)
i rekon we should be able to choose 3 of the six mods on an imbue and the rings Akara and Ormus give us should be at least useable.
edit: if i had a sig, i'd be sigging the OP about now....|||I believe they should decrease the randomness and increase the player's will in items customization somehow. For example let you specify the number of sockets you want on the item, some of the mods and so on. They can make the quests longer and cube recipes harder, but for that make the results more predictable. It's not so much fun to reroll a charm for a whole day or to shop for claws for few weeks.|||Quote:
WELL IT DOESN'T DO ME ANY GOOD EITHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Come on Blizzard... lets get some serious rewards. Not just the 12 skill pts, 60 life and 15 stat points D2 offers.
HAHAHA, nice one, even though i called it earlier when I read the title :P
I totally agree though, class quests should reward good leveling items, that's probably what will happen :P|||They should give a unique, something that makes sense according to the quest that you are doing. And the item should be playable at least so its worth your while, so its not just something that you do in utter boredom just to proceed in the next act...|||Yeah it would be cool if reward items really were rewards - something that would probably be very useful for levelling at the point where you get them.
Not necessarily something of trade value.|||Yeah small wonder why people skip the quests and go straight to boss runs
Wouldn't it be great if you would get an unique ring from Akara for reward in Q3 in Hell? You get magic in normal, rare in nightmare, so why not unique in hell?|||Quote:
WELL IT DOESN'T DO ME ANY GOOD EITHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Lol, the exact same thing i say everytime he gives me that ring :b
Come on Blizzard... lets get some serious rewards. Not just the 12 skill pts, 60 life and 15 stat points D2 offers.|||lol. True.
IIRC, the class specific rewards were a bit better and more usefull. Since there are class specific quests, i think, the rewards will be good. At least I hope so.|||I agree, if they put them in let them make it at least worth our while to do them. Lets no make them just time fillers...|||Quote:
WELL IT DOESN'T DO ME ANY GOOD EITHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Come on Blizzard... lets get some serious rewards. Not just the 12 skill pts, 60 life and 15 stat points D2 offers.
hehehe, VOUCH.
it always pissed me off that after saving his miserable hide, the best ormus can come up with is some trash ring he doesn't want anyway (because it's trash, d'uh)
and i've lost count of the number of blasted Imbues that have come back lacking only ONE damn vital mod...... (2sox/ed/10ias/+3ls/+3venom/+3fade greater talon in one case. where was the damn fools mod..... grrrrr)
i rekon we should be able to choose 3 of the six mods on an imbue and the rings Akara and Ormus give us should be at least useable.
edit: if i had a sig, i'd be sigging the OP about now....|||I believe they should decrease the randomness and increase the player's will in items customization somehow. For example let you specify the number of sockets you want on the item, some of the mods and so on. They can make the quests longer and cube recipes harder, but for that make the results more predictable. It's not so much fun to reroll a charm for a whole day or to shop for claws for few weeks.|||Quote:
WELL IT DOESN'T DO ME ANY GOOD EITHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Come on Blizzard... lets get some serious rewards. Not just the 12 skill pts, 60 life and 15 stat points D2 offers.
HAHAHA, nice one, even though i called it earlier when I read the title :P
I totally agree though, class quests should reward good leveling items, that's probably what will happen :P|||They should give a unique, something that makes sense according to the quest that you are doing. And the item should be playable at least so its worth your while, so its not just something that you do in utter boredom just to proceed in the next act...|||Yeah it would be cool if reward items really were rewards - something that would probably be very useful for levelling at the point where you get them.
Not necessarily something of trade value.|||Yeah small wonder why people skip the quests and go straight to boss runs
Wouldn't it be great if you would get an unique ring from Akara for reward in Q3 in Hell? You get magic in normal, rare in nightmare, so why not unique in hell?
|||Quote:WELL IT DOESN'T DO ME ANY GOOD EITHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Lol, the exact same thing i say everytime he gives me that ring :b
Serpent's Silver Sword of Striking [Sockected S] - Six Ideas...
[:1]My Top Wish List, and important things.
1 - Verticality (use of stairs as advantage) - target and hit monsters from the top of stairs with spells. VERY important. otherwise it kills the immersion. Dungeon Siege had that...c'mon.. Also make it possible to shift click in front of a monster to target the ground there and to be able to shoot there with spells and with exploding arrows/bolts. See my post titled "Congratulations & Questions" 2010-july-08.
2 - Socketables : Ideas : Star gems, Obsidian stones, pearls and Crystals, Blood Diamonds, bones and a variety of creature's skulls.
3 - Skill runes into items : Different effect, related effect, set (predefined effect) ?
4 - Different metals for items : That's where the "Silver" in the title comes from. For old-time gamers, that's as in Might & Magic IV-V : Metals :
Wooden, Glass, Brass, Bronze, Quartz, Pearl, Crystal, Silver, Amber, Ebony, Steel, Gold, Platinum, Emerald, Ruby, Saphire, Diamond, Obsidian.
Then add Ivory, Bone, Meteoric, Adamantite, Amethyst, Topaz, etc.
Perhaps Living ? Demonic and Heavenly. Particular effects ? Demonic = Cursed ? Both identical in shape and identification ?
As I mentionned earlier Blood Diamond : To emphasize that there could be subtypes of gems. So many types of Diamond. Many types of Wood...
And notice, all point 4 is about "metals", so you get an Obsidian Hand Axe (very good) and a Wooden Hand Axe (Poor)
5 - Unsocketing at low cost : Again see my post "Congratulations and Questiosn" where I discuss this. It's as in Median, where you finally socket that super nice rare jewel. This is where the rare Circlet you found with a single socket is finally socketed.(because otherwise I wait to find a better socketable rune or rare jewel...) It's time consuming and costs just 3 scroll of TP. A low cost.
6 - Shared stash & Exchange Method : A must. For Single Players. Otherwise, I'll do anything to use a simple "Item exchanger".
Thanks for reading, Claymore, 2010-07-09
1 - Verticality (use of stairs as advantage) - target and hit monsters from the top of stairs with spells. VERY important. otherwise it kills the immersion. Dungeon Siege had that...c'mon.. Also make it possible to shift click in front of a monster to target the ground there and to be able to shoot there with spells and with exploding arrows/bolts. See my post titled "Congratulations & Questions" 2010-july-08.
2 - Socketables : Ideas : Star gems, Obsidian stones, pearls and Crystals, Blood Diamonds, bones and a variety of creature's skulls.
3 - Skill runes into items : Different effect, related effect, set (predefined effect) ?
4 - Different metals for items : That's where the "Silver" in the title comes from. For old-time gamers, that's as in Might & Magic IV-V : Metals :
Wooden, Glass, Brass, Bronze, Quartz, Pearl, Crystal, Silver, Amber, Ebony, Steel, Gold, Platinum, Emerald, Ruby, Saphire, Diamond, Obsidian.
Then add Ivory, Bone, Meteoric, Adamantite, Amethyst, Topaz, etc.
Perhaps Living ? Demonic and Heavenly. Particular effects ? Demonic = Cursed ? Both identical in shape and identification ?
As I mentionned earlier Blood Diamond : To emphasize that there could be subtypes of gems. So many types of Diamond. Many types of Wood...
And notice, all point 4 is about "metals", so you get an Obsidian Hand Axe (very good) and a Wooden Hand Axe (Poor)
5 - Unsocketing at low cost : Again see my post "Congratulations and Questiosn" where I discuss this. It's as in Median, where you finally socket that super nice rare jewel. This is where the rare Circlet you found with a single socket is finally socketed.(because otherwise I wait to find a better socketable rune or rare jewel...) It's time consuming and costs just 3 scroll of TP. A low cost.
6 - Shared stash & Exchange Method : A must. For Single Players. Otherwise, I'll do anything to use a simple "Item exchanger".
Thanks for reading, Claymore, 2010-07-09
Servers instead of Games? :P
[:1]Hey everyone. Wouldn't it be kinda cool if it was servers, so that everyone could meet instead of games with player cap?
This is just an idea and I know that it probably will be "Games", but...
It's better to suggest than not to
|||No. How would boss runs work?
Youd need respawn mobs which would get tedious|||Id like it a lot if they did it the server way. Much like they do with Guildwars where you can co-mingle in town and then once you party up you are instanced to your own little world once ya leave town.|||Quote:
Hey everyone. Wouldn't it be kinda cool if it was servers, so that everyone could meet instead of games with player cap?
This is just an idea and I know that it probably will be "Games", but...
It's better to suggest than not to
So basically you want an mmo?|||The guild wars style is good, but aren't you forgetting something. Town portals don't exist on guild wars. Everytime your inventory is full, or you are in deep **** or something, and you have to go back to town, the next time you enter that zone it is a new instance and lo and behold, you have to clear all that which you just cleared. Diablo-way is much better. You can actually clear the game in a single game, and then when you go back to andariel's lair to pick up some goods, they are still there and everyone's dead. Woohoo.. Not to mention storing stuff in town, quick town entering and exiting..
But I heard something about town portals not being in Diablo 3? I don't know..
Anyway, Guild Wars can be a mighty frustrating game of repetition with no adventure or loot - don't go there.|||Well.. having towns as lobby would indeed add some social part to the game. And that in GW instances will reset isn't any argument. It would not have to be this way in D3. If I remember correctly they even considered something like this for D2. But had no time to implement it. Or maybe it wasn't "shared-towns", but rather separate "lobby-town" from where you were able to join games.
This is just an idea and I know that it probably will be "Games", but...
It's better to suggest than not to
|||No. How would boss runs work?Youd need respawn mobs which would get tedious|||Id like it a lot if they did it the server way. Much like they do with Guildwars where you can co-mingle in town and then once you party up you are instanced to your own little world once ya leave town.|||Quote:
Hey everyone. Wouldn't it be kinda cool if it was servers, so that everyone could meet instead of games with player cap?
This is just an idea and I know that it probably will be "Games", but...
It's better to suggest than not to
So basically you want an mmo?|||The guild wars style is good, but aren't you forgetting something. Town portals don't exist on guild wars. Everytime your inventory is full, or you are in deep **** or something, and you have to go back to town, the next time you enter that zone it is a new instance and lo and behold, you have to clear all that which you just cleared. Diablo-way is much better. You can actually clear the game in a single game, and then when you go back to andariel's lair to pick up some goods, they are still there and everyone's dead. Woohoo.. Not to mention storing stuff in town, quick town entering and exiting..
But I heard something about town portals not being in Diablo 3? I don't know..
Anyway, Guild Wars can be a mighty frustrating game of repetition with no adventure or loot - don't go there.|||Well.. having towns as lobby would indeed add some social part to the game. And that in GW instances will reset isn't any argument. It would not have to be this way in D3. If I remember correctly they even considered something like this for D2. But had no time to implement it. Or maybe it wasn't "shared-towns", but rather separate "lobby-town" from where you were able to join games.
Do flintlock type guns have a place in Diablo? - Page 5
[:1]IMO, cannons and bombs might have a place in D2, but with all the magic around, there's no real need for small arms, considering one could just buy a set of enchanted throwing knives with AR and self replenish, or whatever. Or just throw fireballs.|||Guns??
The "lowly" crossbow made the knights and heavy armored fighters obsolete in no time at all. Guns made it even worst. It takes very little skill to kill with a gun at short range.
smooth barrel guns and cannons are some of the most terrifying tools of war ever made.
A cannon which is what Larzuk talked about as well as air balloons will not kill a boss pack it will turn it into a red mist of broken pieces.
You do know the damage multi projectile cannonballs tied together did on early battlefield don�t you?
not to mention the early lets put smaller projectiles along side nails and other nasty stuff idea. It worked very well. To well for my taste.
If we have guns in the game why the heck ever use anything else?
People don�t bring a sword to a gun fight now days(outside movies and suicidal maniacs) for this very reason.
More so all you need to do with a gun is aim and shot. your opponent can be better,stronger, more well armed(talking about medieval armor here), more experienced no matter what if you can aim and shot and hit them they will be dead.|||Your gun won't matter if my throwing knife autoaims and rips through several sheets of metal now would it? Also, didn't bullets use to flatten on impact?
The "lowly" crossbow made the knights and heavy armored fighters obsolete in no time at all. Guns made it even worst. It takes very little skill to kill with a gun at short range.
smooth barrel guns and cannons are some of the most terrifying tools of war ever made.
A cannon which is what Larzuk talked about as well as air balloons will not kill a boss pack it will turn it into a red mist of broken pieces.
You do know the damage multi projectile cannonballs tied together did on early battlefield don�t you?
not to mention the early lets put smaller projectiles along side nails and other nasty stuff idea. It worked very well. To well for my taste.
If we have guns in the game why the heck ever use anything else?
People don�t bring a sword to a gun fight now days(outside movies and suicidal maniacs) for this very reason.
More so all you need to do with a gun is aim and shot. your opponent can be better,stronger, more well armed(talking about medieval armor here), more experienced no matter what if you can aim and shot and hit them they will be dead.|||Your gun won't matter if my throwing knife autoaims and rips through several sheets of metal now would it? Also, didn't bullets use to flatten on impact?
Do flintlock type guns have a place in Diablo? - Page 4
[:1]Quote:
Knight-wolf you seem to be 'sticking to your guns' on this one if you pardon the pun and I've enjoyed reading you essay on the subject.
No problem
Quote:
I was not presenting an argument at the G20 summit I was simply expressing my opinion. I was quite affronted by your comment 'Who are you to decide....'. I'd like to say that I am a guy who will buy this game and that entitles me to give an opinion and have that opinion respected.
Respected .. maybe yes .. but hindering the advancement of the game .. no .. Blizz has the full right to ditch and ignore any opinion if they feel it has no place in the game .. that includes your opinion and mine too.
Quote:
To look at your arguments for gun culture in D3 I have a few questions.
Do we really need slower, high damage weapons? I agree that xbows tried and failed to fill this gap but does it really need filling? Personally I prefer speed over power but each to their own.
That's the whole point, just because you favor speed over power doesn't mean that other won't favor power over speed ... variety is important.
Quote:
Variety? - Not sold on this one. Again personal preference. I feel that D2 has a fair variety of weapons and don't think that adding guns would really enhance this for me.
D2 .. maybe .... but what about D3 .. just the same exact things all over again .. that's pretty boring .. same swords ... same axes .. same polearms .. where is creativity here ?
Quote:
Fits the Lore - Just because black powder was hinted at in D2 doesn't make it a good idea.
Neither does it make it a bad one .. it makes it a possibility .. why did they even bother add such hint to begin with !!!?
Quote:
As for 'come back when you have a decent argument' I feel that was bit harsh. I expressed an opinion, nothing more. You disagreed. Fair enough but there was no need for such a cheap shot.
You got a point .. sorry there
Quote:
A previous post said that the inclusion of guns would bring Diablo closer to our world. I don't want it closer to our world. I want it just where it is.
That's quite subjective .. D2:LoD added catapults, pseudo-war-elephants and siege weapons to the hell minions arsenal and it didn't really make it that closer to our world.
------------------------------
Finally i have to say you had some good points indeed, and i actually have nothing more to add on the matter as i explained my point thoroughly .. let's leave it at that then
|||Bashiok has outright said that he has outright said that he very specifically said No Guns.|||Quote:
Bashiok has outright said that he has outright said that he very specifically said No Guns.
Of course we all know that, but since there is a severe lack of updates (rather drought) then all we have left is discuss things like these ... simply discussing why guns could have been good in D3 or are a bad idea to implement is interesting in and of itself as long as each side has reasonable arguments that are more than just "I WANT GUNZ" or "NO GUNZ PLZ"|||I bet guns would be horrifically underpowered cause they would fire so slowly, but I like underpowered builds, and I bet guns only would make for a fun single player forum tournament, so I'd be down|||As other people must have brought up, Larzuk did conceive of firing projectiles with gunpowder :P.
Bashiok may have said that there won't be guns in the Diablo universe, but I personally feel that flintlock weapons wouldn't feel out of place. They have a suitably antiquated feel about them.
All I know is that after using them in Torchlight and hearing their satisfying clicks and bangs, I definitely think it wouldn't hurt to have them in D3 ^____^.|||Well this thread has been resurrected more times than Jesus (I think?) so I guess it can't really hurt to add my 2 cents.
I know everyone hates guns, but since black power has been hinted at, why not add that to the game?
Black power could be held in bags that could be carried on the character in some random slot or something.
The Barbarian could apply black powder to his weapons and spark it to create explosions when needed.
The Sorceress could use her magic to throw the black powder at her enemies, and then shoot a spark or something to explode it.
The Witch Doctor could add the black powder to his minions to turn them into suicide bombers that could be used for large area damage.
The Monk could attach the bags to his wrist and flip one up into one of his combos to add an explosion effect.
A ranger fifth class could add a bag of black powder to an arrow for an explosive effect.
Maybe these ideas over guns might be better?|||Yes, but Larzuk meant its as cannons, as it is first step of gunning evolution, so no.|||i hate gun in wow, and in that game they make more sense. so i still say no guns, they just dont fit and i dont see the point in trying to make them fit.|||I dont realy like the idea of guns in Diablo , but if it would apear it should be powerful but vary slow maby somthing like Witch slayer from Heroes of newerth , where he has one shot with hese pistol with vary long cool down maby you had to reloade out of combat or atleast 5 - 6 sec to reload.|||In a world were people run around casting 20 fireballs in 3 seconds I dont really see guns usefull, and they definetly dont fit.. I despised them in WoW and id be really sad and dissapointed to see them make their way into D2.
Knight-wolf you seem to be 'sticking to your guns' on this one if you pardon the pun and I've enjoyed reading you essay on the subject.
No problem
Quote:
I was not presenting an argument at the G20 summit I was simply expressing my opinion. I was quite affronted by your comment 'Who are you to decide....'. I'd like to say that I am a guy who will buy this game and that entitles me to give an opinion and have that opinion respected.
Respected .. maybe yes .. but hindering the advancement of the game .. no .. Blizz has the full right to ditch and ignore any opinion if they feel it has no place in the game .. that includes your opinion and mine too.
Quote:
To look at your arguments for gun culture in D3 I have a few questions.
Do we really need slower, high damage weapons? I agree that xbows tried and failed to fill this gap but does it really need filling? Personally I prefer speed over power but each to their own.
That's the whole point, just because you favor speed over power doesn't mean that other won't favor power over speed ... variety is important.
Quote:
Variety? - Not sold on this one. Again personal preference. I feel that D2 has a fair variety of weapons and don't think that adding guns would really enhance this for me.
D2 .. maybe .... but what about D3 .. just the same exact things all over again .. that's pretty boring .. same swords ... same axes .. same polearms .. where is creativity here ?
Quote:
Fits the Lore - Just because black powder was hinted at in D2 doesn't make it a good idea.
Neither does it make it a bad one .. it makes it a possibility .. why did they even bother add such hint to begin with !!!?
Quote:
As for 'come back when you have a decent argument' I feel that was bit harsh. I expressed an opinion, nothing more. You disagreed. Fair enough but there was no need for such a cheap shot.
You got a point .. sorry there
Quote:
A previous post said that the inclusion of guns would bring Diablo closer to our world. I don't want it closer to our world. I want it just where it is.
That's quite subjective .. D2:LoD added catapults, pseudo-war-elephants and siege weapons to the hell minions arsenal and it didn't really make it that closer to our world.
------------------------------
Finally i have to say you had some good points indeed, and i actually have nothing more to add on the matter as i explained my point thoroughly .. let's leave it at that then
|||Bashiok has outright said that he has outright said that he very specifically said No Guns.|||Quote:Bashiok has outright said that he has outright said that he very specifically said No Guns.
Of course we all know that, but since there is a severe lack of updates (rather drought) then all we have left is discuss things like these ... simply discussing why guns could have been good in D3 or are a bad idea to implement is interesting in and of itself as long as each side has reasonable arguments that are more than just "I WANT GUNZ" or "NO GUNZ PLZ"
|||I bet guns would be horrifically underpowered cause they would fire so slowly, but I like underpowered builds, and I bet guns only would make for a fun single player forum tournament, so I'd be down|||As other people must have brought up, Larzuk did conceive of firing projectiles with gunpowder :P.Bashiok may have said that there won't be guns in the Diablo universe, but I personally feel that flintlock weapons wouldn't feel out of place. They have a suitably antiquated feel about them.
All I know is that after using them in Torchlight and hearing their satisfying clicks and bangs, I definitely think it wouldn't hurt to have them in D3 ^____^.|||Well this thread has been resurrected more times than Jesus (I think?) so I guess it can't really hurt to add my 2 cents.
I know everyone hates guns, but since black power has been hinted at, why not add that to the game?
Black power could be held in bags that could be carried on the character in some random slot or something.
The Barbarian could apply black powder to his weapons and spark it to create explosions when needed.
The Sorceress could use her magic to throw the black powder at her enemies, and then shoot a spark or something to explode it.
The Witch Doctor could add the black powder to his minions to turn them into suicide bombers that could be used for large area damage.
The Monk could attach the bags to his wrist and flip one up into one of his combos to add an explosion effect.
A ranger fifth class could add a bag of black powder to an arrow for an explosive effect.
Maybe these ideas over guns might be better?|||Yes, but Larzuk meant its as cannons, as it is first step of gunning evolution, so no.|||i hate gun in wow, and in that game they make more sense. so i still say no guns, they just dont fit and i dont see the point in trying to make them fit.|||I dont realy like the idea of guns in Diablo , but if it would apear it should be powerful but vary slow
maby somthing like Witch slayer from Heroes of newerth , where he has one shot with hese pistol with vary long cool down maby you had to reloade out of combat or atleast 5 - 6 sec to reload.|||In a world were people run around casting 20 fireballs in 3 seconds I dont really see guns usefull, and they definetly dont fit.. I despised them in WoW and id be really sad and dissapointed to see them make their way into D2.
Do flintlock type guns have a place in Diablo? - Page 3
[:1]Quote:
Necromancer will not be in Diablo 3. Please don't resurrect old, horrible threads.
I'm not the one who resurrected it .. i just found it active and realized i had more input to add into the subject.
Quote:
Knight_Wolf, I'm disappointed in you. Guns? Seriously!? It would kill the style.
Like i always say .. everything changes .. there is no holy or divine reason why Diablo can't shift it's style, change and grow into something that's not 100% identical to the previous games.
Quote:
Guns are a pretty big shift. It automatically implies that the world is closer to ours, which is not what Diablo is about at all.
Big shift ... Not at all ... hand held cannons are pretty damn old .. and many fantasy games/stories incorporate technology while giving it a medieval or ancient flavor .. that's called creativity and innovation .... but even that won't be needed cause there are already gun-cannons that fit the world of diablo perfectly.
Not to mention .. invention of gun powder was already hinted in D2:LOD 20 years before D3 .. what to do about that .. re-release D2:LOD and remove that part of the LORE or what !!!?
Long story short .. if Gun-cannons where given a visual look/style that is ornamented and fits with the world around them and were incorporated to fill in the niche of slow ranged high damage weapons it's actually going to beenfit Diablo 3 greatly not the other way around.
Quote:
I mean, try to imagine a Witch Doctor, or a Wizard, or a Barbarian wielding a gun. It's just not right.
Just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean it can't be made (what creativity is for then !!?) .. guns could me made to fit any era (from prehistoric times to the future), place or even dimension if done right
I have no trouble at all seeing a barbarian holding one of those ornamented ancient looking gun-cannons and using it in combat.|||I really don't see the point of guns. The reloading mechanism would be slow, and theres no way you can make it go faster unlike bows, which you can just draw faster. So ya, with all the magic in the Diablo universe, a gun would only be good for say, a militia or a common person, and not one of our heroes with crazy strength/speed/magic/skillz.|||even though there wo�nt be any guns, Larzuk kinda invented them, go gossip with Qual�kekh and see for ursleves|||Quote:
I really don't see the point of guns. The reloading mechanism would be slow, and theres no way you can make it go faster unlike bows, which you can just draw faster.
Draw faster !!! ... What ? .. its a game not real life .. there could be a way to customize and to make gun-cannons fire faster as a part of the expected crafting system in the game.
Besides .. who said you can make even a normal Crossbow (like the ones from D2) fire faster in real life ... it works with a trigger just like guns !!!!
And for the third time Guns are needed cause they fill a niche that isn't filled by any of the weapons in the game .. slow, long range high damage weapons (which crossbosws tried to fill but failed cause they were not really viable .. maybe except the very rare high-end versions)
Quote:
So ya, with all the magic in the Diablo universe, a gun would only be good for say, a militia or a common person
Same go be said about all the typical weapons in Daiblo .. if magic is the excuse then there is no need for bows, crossbows or even swords if magic is that effective ... not really an argument at all.
Gun-cannons in D3 can be like other weapons too .. their shells can be enchanted with poison, electricity, fire or even ice and arcane.
And like i said .. gameplay wise powerful ranged weapons allows fro more varied builds that depend on defensive skills and passives and invest very little in other offensive or active skills.
Quote:
and not one of our heroes with crazy strength/speed/magic/skillz.
That's really a misconception ... if they are really supehuman why even use any sort weapons and armor ... this logic just doesn't add up.|||Quote:
Like i always say .. everything changes .. there is no holy or divine reason why Diablo can't shift it's style, change and grow into something that's not 100% identical to the previous games.
you�re right, there�s no divine power stopping it from shifting, but god damn, if there will be guns i shall call upon the heavens to smite thee who suggested them...!!!|||Quote:
you�re right, there�s no divine power stopping it from shifting, but god damn, if there will be guns i shall call upon the heavens to smite thee who suggested them...!!!
Lols ... Now i understand the feelings of those who were accused of heresy and evil because they suggested something new or different or even hinted at changing something people take for granted .. it seems some things never change.|||Quote:
<picture of ornamental cannons>
I have no trouble at all seeing a barbarian holding one of those ornamented ancient looking gun-cannons and using it in combat.
Okay, something like those I could see happening.|||But it'd be much simpler for one to simply haste oneself and just shoot faster than to make all the parts of a gun go faster. That being said, it could be possible like you said. Addressing the point of the heroes being stronger, the barbarian has been a warrior for his whole life, the witch doctor probably had intensive training and some kind of rite of passage test, and the wizard is wily enough to defeat an archmage. I think they,re stronger than your average warrior. I would rather guns not be put in, asI dont think our heroes really need a gun, however mercs and random helpers could use some. That's just my personal view though.|||I don't like the idea of guns, and it's a bit anachronistic. It would be about 300-400 years too advanced? Then again, a lot of the so called 'medieval' weaponry in Diablo is probably too advanced. I think the advent of full plate armour was much later than the time period that Diablo reflects. So the musket/flintlock guns that are being talked about aren't that unreasonable.
And remember the Assassin from Diablo 2? Weren't her traps all based around magical/technological gadgets and the like?
God how I hated those traps, that part was a total failure...|||Knight-wolf you seem to be 'sticking to your guns' on this one if you pardon the pun and I've enjoyed reading you essay on the subject.
In my original post I was not aware that my homework would be marked so harshly so I'd like to put a few points across.
I was not presenting an argument at the G20 summit I was simply expressing my opinion. I was quite affronted by your comment 'Who are you to decide....'. I'd like to say that I am a guy who will buy this game and that entitles me to give an opinion and have that opinion respected.
To look at your arguments for gun culture in D3 I have a few questions.
Do we really need slower, high damage weapons? I agree that xbows tried and failed to fill this gap but does it really need filling? Personally I prefer speed over power but each to their own.
Variety? - Not sold on this one. Again personal preference. I feel that D2 has a fair variety of weapons and don't think that adding guns would really enhance this for me.
Creative class builds. - I am struggling to see which class of character could use it. You have hinted at the Barb but that does not work for me. The traditional Barb is a melee fighter, swords, axes, maces etc not a ranged attacker. I dont want to change this in D3 and can't see a Wizard or WD suiting the weapon you pictured. Maybe it will fit better with one of the unknown classes, who knows
Fits the Lore - Just because black powder was hinted at in D2 doesn't make it a good idea.
As for 'come back when you have a decent argument' I feel that was bit harsh. I expressed an opinion, nothing more. You disagreed. Fair enough but there was no need for such a cheap shot.
I'll elabotrate on my 'Please no guns' comment. It wasn't an argument it was a statement. To explain it further I love Diablo, I have played for years and love the game style, content, lore, skills, items, you name it. Guns for me would not fit the classic genre. They would not enhance my gaming experience. (When I want to shoot something I play Halo, COD, GOW etc).
A previous post said that the inclusion of guns would bring Diablo closer to our world. I don't want it closer to our world. I want it just where it is.
Necromancer will not be in Diablo 3. Please don't resurrect old, horrible threads.
I'm not the one who resurrected it .. i just found it active and realized i had more input to add into the subject.
Quote:
Knight_Wolf, I'm disappointed in you. Guns? Seriously!? It would kill the style.
Like i always say .. everything changes .. there is no holy or divine reason why Diablo can't shift it's style, change and grow into something that's not 100% identical to the previous games.
Quote:
Guns are a pretty big shift. It automatically implies that the world is closer to ours, which is not what Diablo is about at all.
Big shift ... Not at all ... hand held cannons are pretty damn old .. and many fantasy games/stories incorporate technology while giving it a medieval or ancient flavor .. that's called creativity and innovation .... but even that won't be needed cause there are already gun-cannons that fit the world of diablo perfectly.
Not to mention .. invention of gun powder was already hinted in D2:LOD 20 years before D3 .. what to do about that .. re-release D2:LOD and remove that part of the LORE or what !!!?
Long story short .. if Gun-cannons where given a visual look/style that is ornamented and fits with the world around them and were incorporated to fill in the niche of slow ranged high damage weapons it's actually going to beenfit Diablo 3 greatly not the other way around.
Quote:
I mean, try to imagine a Witch Doctor, or a Wizard, or a Barbarian wielding a gun. It's just not right.
Just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean it can't be made (what creativity is for then !!?) .. guns could me made to fit any era (from prehistoric times to the future), place or even dimension if done right
I have no trouble at all seeing a barbarian holding one of those ornamented ancient looking gun-cannons and using it in combat.|||I really don't see the point of guns. The reloading mechanism would be slow, and theres no way you can make it go faster unlike bows, which you can just draw faster. So ya, with all the magic in the Diablo universe, a gun would only be good for say, a militia or a common person, and not one of our heroes with crazy strength/speed/magic/skillz.|||even though there wo�nt be any guns, Larzuk kinda invented them, go gossip with Qual�kekh and see for ursleves|||Quote:
I really don't see the point of guns. The reloading mechanism would be slow, and theres no way you can make it go faster unlike bows, which you can just draw faster.
Draw faster !!! ... What ? .. its a game not real life .. there could be a way to customize and to make gun-cannons fire faster as a part of the expected crafting system in the game.
Besides .. who said you can make even a normal Crossbow (like the ones from D2) fire faster in real life ... it works with a trigger just like guns !!!!
And for the third time Guns are needed cause they fill a niche that isn't filled by any of the weapons in the game .. slow, long range high damage weapons (which crossbosws tried to fill but failed cause they were not really viable .. maybe except the very rare high-end versions)
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So ya, with all the magic in the Diablo universe, a gun would only be good for say, a militia or a common person
Same go be said about all the typical weapons in Daiblo .. if magic is the excuse then there is no need for bows, crossbows or even swords if magic is that effective ... not really an argument at all.
Gun-cannons in D3 can be like other weapons too .. their shells can be enchanted with poison, electricity, fire or even ice and arcane.
And like i said .. gameplay wise powerful ranged weapons allows fro more varied builds that depend on defensive skills and passives and invest very little in other offensive or active skills.
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and not one of our heroes with crazy strength/speed/magic/skillz.
That's really a misconception ... if they are really supehuman why even use any sort weapons and armor ... this logic just doesn't add up.|||Quote:
Like i always say .. everything changes .. there is no holy or divine reason why Diablo can't shift it's style, change and grow into something that's not 100% identical to the previous games.
you�re right, there�s no divine power stopping it from shifting, but god damn, if there will be guns i shall call upon the heavens to smite thee who suggested them...!!!|||Quote:
you�re right, there�s no divine power stopping it from shifting, but god damn, if there will be guns i shall call upon the heavens to smite thee who suggested them...!!!
Lols ... Now i understand the feelings of those who were accused of heresy and evil because they suggested something new or different or even hinted at changing something people take for granted .. it seems some things never change.
|||Quote:<picture of ornamental cannons>
I have no trouble at all seeing a barbarian holding one of those ornamented ancient looking gun-cannons and using it in combat.
Okay, something like those I could see happening.|||But it'd be much simpler for one to simply haste oneself and just shoot faster than to make all the parts of a gun go faster. That being said, it could be possible like you said. Addressing the point of the heroes being stronger, the barbarian has been a warrior for his whole life, the witch doctor probably had intensive training and some kind of rite of passage test, and the wizard is wily enough to defeat an archmage. I think they,re stronger than your average warrior. I would rather guns not be put in, asI dont think our heroes really need a gun, however mercs and random helpers could use some. That's just my personal view though.|||I don't like the idea of guns, and it's a bit anachronistic. It would be about 300-400 years too advanced? Then again, a lot of the so called 'medieval' weaponry in Diablo is probably too advanced. I think the advent of full plate armour was much later than the time period that Diablo reflects. So the musket/flintlock guns that are being talked about aren't that unreasonable.
And remember the Assassin from Diablo 2? Weren't her traps all based around magical/technological gadgets and the like?
God how I hated those traps, that part was a total failure...|||Knight-wolf you seem to be 'sticking to your guns' on this one if you pardon the pun and I've enjoyed reading you essay on the subject.
In my original post I was not aware that my homework would be marked so harshly so I'd like to put a few points across.
I was not presenting an argument at the G20 summit I was simply expressing my opinion. I was quite affronted by your comment 'Who are you to decide....'. I'd like to say that I am a guy who will buy this game and that entitles me to give an opinion and have that opinion respected.
To look at your arguments for gun culture in D3 I have a few questions.
Do we really need slower, high damage weapons? I agree that xbows tried and failed to fill this gap but does it really need filling? Personally I prefer speed over power but each to their own.
Variety? - Not sold on this one. Again personal preference. I feel that D2 has a fair variety of weapons and don't think that adding guns would really enhance this for me.
Creative class builds. - I am struggling to see which class of character could use it. You have hinted at the Barb but that does not work for me. The traditional Barb is a melee fighter, swords, axes, maces etc not a ranged attacker. I dont want to change this in D3 and can't see a Wizard or WD suiting the weapon you pictured. Maybe it will fit better with one of the unknown classes, who knows
Fits the Lore - Just because black powder was hinted at in D2 doesn't make it a good idea.
As for 'come back when you have a decent argument' I feel that was bit harsh. I expressed an opinion, nothing more. You disagreed. Fair enough but there was no need for such a cheap shot.
I'll elabotrate on my 'Please no guns' comment. It wasn't an argument it was a statement. To explain it further I love Diablo, I have played for years and love the game style, content, lore, skills, items, you name it. Guns for me would not fit the classic genre. They would not enhance my gaming experience. (When I want to shoot something I play Halo, COD, GOW etc).
A previous post said that the inclusion of guns would bring Diablo closer to our world. I don't want it closer to our world. I want it just where it is.
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